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Original poster

Gall bladder cleanses - do they work?

37 replies

AitchTwoOHoHoHo · 05/12/2011 12:49

i have an itty-bitty gallstone that is only causing a bit of annoyance (well, apart from the odd occasion where i have thought i was DYING) so would rather go the hippy, olive-oil-drinking option before thinking of surgery.

but do they work? can anyone help?

OP posts:

Lizcat · 05/12/2011 14:24

I know several people who have avoided surgery, but sticking to Rosemary Connely's less than 4% fat diet.

Original poster

AitchTwoOHoHoHo · 05/12/2011 14:24

FOREVER?!

OP posts:

Lizcat · 05/12/2011 15:19

They stick to it 90% of the time. The key to medical treatment of gall stones is low fat diet.

BambinoBoo · 05/12/2011 15:21

I wouldn't recommend either. An olive oil combo could go the other way and land you in A&E with a massive gallstone attack. And living on less than 4% fat, which I am currently doing as I wait for my op, is no fun at all. I am so low on energy, I wouldn't recommend it long term. Besides, Rosemay Connely - I'm sure - ended up opting for the surgery too.

Aitch, if you have had attacks where you thought you were dying then your gallstones are becoming a problem. You might have months between attacks, but they will come. My surgeon said that once they start to cause symptoms, they will always be a problem.

MoreBeta · 05/12/2011 15:26

Do not mess about with this nonsense. If you have a gallstone and it is causing pain it wil only get worse. You need to get in front a consultant after an ultrasound ASAP and have the thing out.

A biliary cholic attack for 2 days is not something I would recommend. Yes I did think I was dying and more to the point, I stopped caring if I did.

Original poster

AitchTwoOHoHoHo · 05/12/2011 16:43

oh i have, it's deffo there, i saw it wink at me, but i'd rather not have an operation if possible. why is it nonsense? judging even by the fact that olive oil can bring on an attack, something is happening. is it that the stone can get stuck.

OP posts:

MoreBeta · 05/12/2011 16:45

Yes. A stone stuck in the pancreatic duct is beyond agony. You will be in A&E.

CamperFan · 05/12/2011 20:07

There's definitely just one? When you say itty bitty, how small?

Having done several gallbladder flushes, and having had my gallbladder out since, I would say, just don't risk the flushes. They are extremely unpleasant and can trigger attacks while doing the flush. If you just have one stone, it tends to be a bit bigger that someone with loads and loads (like me) and so a gallbladder attack is even more dangerous. But even a tiny stone can get lodged in the pancreatic duct, making a double op necessary really, which is further risk - plus pancreatitis can actually be fatal.

If you have had one gallbladder attack then you are likely to have another at some point. I lived with gallstones for 3 years and tried to avoid surgery (was un diagnosed for 1 year), but I lived in constant fear of another attack really. I have had no problems at all since my gallbladder removal.

CamperFan · 05/12/2011 20:11

Oh and I should mention that I did several of these flushes and I must have removed oooh, about 4 gritty gallstones after all that hard work. Everything else that er, came out, were a kind of soft, green, pea like substance, which are described in the book - can remember the explanation given for those now. But my gallbladder was apparently "packed" with the gritty little critters when removed.

Original poster

AitchTwoOHoHoHo · 05/12/2011 20:46

there is, according to the two docs who did the ultrasound this morning, just one, and it's less than a cm. (senior doc said 'just eyeballing it, but it's not a big one'.) i would LOVE just to get rid of it without surgery.

OP posts:

Original poster

AitchTwoOHoHoHo · 05/12/2011 20:47

btw how on EARTH does one know when they come out?

OP posts:

CamperFan · 06/12/2011 15:34

I will leave you to work that out Aitch. If you wanted to see if you'd got rid of your stone, what would you do?

Don't risk it. I was hospitalised after my last gallbladder attack as the stone had irritated the pancreatic duct. If it gets stuck there, it's bad news and a more risky operation.

jchocchip · 06/12/2011 17:59

Over 10 years ago, I landed in a&e with biliary colic - had morphine, the works. Anaestetist wasn't happy with my bmi so referred to dietitian. Did low fat diet for years and had a number of less severe attacks. Still haven't had the op. Did try the olive oil and grapefruit a couple of times. Can't remember being in agony so prob did not dislodge anything...

Original poster

AitchTwoOHoHoHo · 06/12/2011 21:25

grrrrr. so no cleanses then.

what's the op like?

OP posts:

Original poster

AitchTwoOHoHoHo · 06/12/2011 21:25

OP posts:

MoreBeta · 06/12/2011 21:49

I had general and keyhole.

Thing is, they don't know if they are going to have to open you up until they get you on the operating theatre and you are already under GA. You have to sign a form to say you authorise them to cut you open.

It took me a good month to recover from keyhole but at least I did walk out of hospital the same day.

MoreBeta · 06/12/2011 21:50

It is a surprisingly major operation and you cant drive for several weeks.

Original poster

AitchTwoOHoHoHo · 06/12/2011 22:05

oh pissflaps. i really do not want this. (although i found a cs an absolute doddle so how hard can it be?)

OP posts:

CamperFan · 07/12/2011 11:17

I found the op very easy to recover from - I was on a running machine (trotting slowly) about 2 weeks later (not joking!). I have had a c-section too, it is not the same. My surgeon said it is rare that they have to cut you open, though a possibility.

I couldn't have walked out of the hospital the same day, mainly because I react really badly to GA. Took me ages to come round and felt shocking all day, but I understand that other people don't necessarily get this.

Original poster

AitchTwoOHoHoHo · 07/12/2011 11:20

i've had keyhole to remove tube and ectopic pregnancy, that was a few days to recover from, at least physically.

OP posts:

DaisySteiner · 07/12/2011 12:45

Theoretically you can have the surgery done under spinal, but it's almost always done under general anaesthesia. It is frequently done as day surgery with the option to stay in if necessary.

I've mentioned this on other threads, but according to a specialist I work with the worst thing you can do is put off surgery and suffer repeat attacks. Apart from all the pain and horribleness, you can then get lots of internal scarring which makes the surgery much more difficult.

Personally if you're being recommended surgery I would get yourself on the waiting list!

Original poster

AitchTwoOHoHoHo · 07/12/2011 14:44

okay, cheers. i haven't seen the consultant yet but will probably go along with whatever they say just because... well because i always do.

OP posts:

MoreBeta · 07/12/2011 15:08

Aitch - we don't really do moaning in our house but you will need someone to be around and do things like shopping and any heavy work and such like for a couple of weeks afterwards.

Luckily Mrs Beta was at home during my recovery. She doesn't do cooking but I well remember the day after surgery I was stood by the cooker preparing lunch for the family when Mrs Beta obligingly slid a stool under me to prop me up as I felt a bit wobbly. A couple of weeks later, when I mentioned feeling a bit a twinge one day, she pepped me up with a cheery "Oh I DO wish you would get better!".

Mrs Beta is an absolute rock sometimes.

BambinoBoo · 07/12/2011 19:02

morebeta you sound like you know loads about gallbladder stuff. Can I pick your brain please. Have you heard of situations where the common bile duct is dilated - suggesting a stone is there, along with an inflamed gallbladder, both causing continuous pain, dark urine etc, only to find that it calms down by itself a few days later - with no more than painkillers?. Reason I ask is because my lap chole was started then abandoned for those very reasons, and I'm waiting for a CT scan (referred to a larger hospital) but I feel fine. As long as I eat extra low fat and no alcohol, I'm ok. Can stones moves out of the bile duct on their own do you know? Also, really daft question coming up here, but if I had had pancreatitis, would I have gotten over it by myself? All my previous symptoms point to inflamed GB, but also to pancreatitis - they are so similar symptom wise I know. Yet, when the surgeon went in and discovered my problems, surely he'd have looked at my pancreatic duct and pancreas as they are all in the same area - but he didn't mention those at all. I'd really appreciate any opinions on this as I've been worried sick. Many thanks.

Aitch, sorry for hijacking your thread, but this has been bugging me for weeks and my GP is rubbish. Please please please have the surgery. It really is easier than a CS, and the general was kind of nice actually.

MoreBeta · 07/12/2011 21:39

Bambino - I know when I had my gallbladder problems I did a lot of research and there was a wide range of potential causes of GB type pain. Pancreatitis I definitley know can be a chronic (just comes and goes) type condition.

The stones can also get stuck in the duct and then move on into the gut after a while. The general pain and inflamation you have might be from stones still in your gall bladder and just occassionally one moves into your duct or just the gall stones inflaming your gall bladder wall. The fact you have to stay on a low fat no alcohol diet suggests you definitley have a grumbling GB/pancreatic problem. I still have quite a bit of pain myself from time to time even though I had mine out several years ago and take a lot of antacids.

My mother had GP problems for 3 years and ended up in A&E with an infected GB. Her GP was also rubbish, totally ignored the ultrasound results showing she had loads of gall stones and kept fobbing her off, giving her painkillers. You really really need to be adamant about getting another referal and if possible get in front of another named consultant of your choosing at another hospital. IME and that of my mother GPs are sometimes quite useless on this issue. Sometimes calling it IBS, etc.

You really need to get a different consultant to take a fresh look. Unfortunatley, some people in the medical profesison rather lose interest if they can't find an immediate cure. Keep pushing, you are right. You can't just live like this.

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