Really hate the NHS at the moment.

[AKMD]

Basic background: A large tumour was picked up on by an out-of-hours GP in April this year. I got told I probably had cancer. It took me 15 weeks to see a consultant, after being referred to the wrong consultant who promptly lost my notes. I got given 3 different diagnoses, one of which gave me less than a year to live. It took until September to actually have the operation, after which I didn't have adequate pain relief and got sent home with an insufficient supply to last me until the follow-up appointment. I didn't get a full diagnosis until 3 weeks after the appointment. I got referred on to another consultant after I had complications post-surgery. Hospital lost my notes but they were subsequently found. I asked for a second opinion, which I've had today, only to find that the hospital didn't pass on my test results or my notes so the consultant I saw didn't have enough information to make a diagnosis. I now have to wait 6 weeks for another appointment while they find my notes and test results. The second opinion consultant does surgery at the other consultant's hospital so she said she will consult with the first one about my case history the original diagnosis of the cause of the complication, which I've challenged.

So I've complained that the second opinion is clearly not going to be independent, will complain about them not being prepared for the consultation today, will complain that these constant mess-ups are seriously affecting my quality of life and mental health, am seeing my GP today about being referred to someone who is actually going to give me an independent 2nd opinion and am generally so angry that I feel like hitting something.

DH says I should be grateful that I'm alive. AIBU?

What a dreadful time you've had. I am however pleased that things are looking up a bit, diagnosis wise. You have every right to complain. The system doesn't always function as it should, and unfortunately, when it doesn't things can go badly wrong. We should pick up on things when they do go wrong so that they can be corrected, that way, hopefully, people can learn. I don't know whether or not you should sue, but you certainly should put in some sort of formal complaint.

Oh yes, I hated the NHS for many years after our ordeal. I think we were justified. In fact I still hate them at times, with what she goes through getting the care she is entitled to.

YABU to hate the NHS, but YANBU to be really pissed off at how life has treated you in the last few months and at how the NHS is treated by governments who get in the way of letting them do their job properly.

There isn't any excuse for the failings of the NHS - other European countries manage to havea decent health system, no reason why the UK shouldn't.

Privatisation would make it a lot worse. Ask any American who doesn't have money.

YANBU re what you've been thru and I think it warrants a complaint.

However, YABU to hate the NHS. I've had nothing but positive expereinces with them.How many people bother to talk about the positive ones.

Also to those of you who say you'd rather pay for private medical insurance than pay your NI for the NHS. Do you honestly think that insurance companies give a flying eff about you?

Also, on the 'it's free, you should be grateful' - no and no. You should be grateful to be alive in the sense that we all ought to be, and grateful to any particular medics who have helped you, but the NHS is not the best system in the world and it isn't free and too much of your contributions are (IMO) used up by stupid inefficient admin.

You pay for it, it's failed you, you have a right to have an opinion about it!

"And put even more strain on the NHS Cogito?"

You know what, yes. The NHS gets a free ride a lot of the time because we're all supposed to be tolerant of any shortcomings. When it's our lives and our health that's at stake why should we be tolerant of anything other than excellence? We don't accept shoddy service in any other area of life. If our online grocery shopping is an hour late we're hopping up and down ffs. But if the physiotherapy I desperately need is only available in two weeks' time I'm somehow meant to shrug my shoulders, put up with the excruciating pain and accept that's the best they can do and I should be thankful. The OP is being perfectly reasonable in being angry as all hell. The real mystery is why so many others stay silent.

Nope, but nor does the nhs. You have more choice, control and recourse with private.

A1980 I started a thread a few weeks back about my positive experiences but not that many people answered. Still don't think it is wrong to talk about the negatives. Insurance cos may not a give a flippety flip about you, except as a paying customer, but tbh, the NHS as a corporate body (NOT individuals, but the institution) doesn't seem to either. Or they would organise themselves better.

It is perfectly reasonable to hate the NHS. I love the principles it is based on and I like and respect many of the people who work in it - but I think it is inefficient and often second-rate when it comes to delivering healthcare. It needs a re-design but we, the voters, appear to say that politicians are not allowed to anything but throw money at it.

YANBU to feel angry and frustrated, and to want a better service, you have been through a lot.

I think YABU to point out how much NI you pay - its a service that everyone gets regardless of how much they pay, and there are umpteen other services that the money goes toward.

A1980, insurance companies do give a flying eff because you could take your business elsewhere (and they definitely act like they give a flying eff too).

Nope, but nor does the nhs.

I would dispute that very strongly. My GP and hospital consultant are second to none. When I developed health problems, I chose the hospital I wanted and the GP had to send me there as that's the NHS charter now: they have to send you where you want.

PMI does not always give you what you want when you want it. Also private hopsitals are rubbish compared to NHS hospitals. They're on apr with nurisng homes and woe betide you if you develop complications suring surgery, most of them don't have intensive care facilities so you'd have to be transferred to a NHS facility and probably die on the way.

I would be furious if I or any of my loved ones were told they had a lifelimiting illness and then they 'changed their mind' about the prognosis, was it a brain tumour? Surely the tests/scans/histology was done BEFORE they told you this- how can they suddenly change their mind? I would be furious. I work for the NHS and see how much good it has done but I can also see the flaws. Just because a doctor/nurse any other hcp is employed by the NHS doesn't mean they do their job properly and follow their professional code, which is why PALS came about. People who are unhappy need to complain.
My husband however had a brain tumour and was operated on and back home within 14 days from being diagnosed, I couldnt fault the NHS in anyway then.

Also my friend has PMI. She was referred to the wrong speciality and then her PMI wouldn't pay for a second referral for the same condition. She had to go via the NHS for the correct referral anyway. It worked out better as she got to pickl the hosptial she wanted in the NHS where that hosptial wasn't covered by her PMI.

Well, our experiences differ greatly by the sounds of it...which accounts for our differing opinions.

Privatisation would make it a lot worse. Ask any American who doesn't have money.

Im inclined to agree- it would imo also widen the gap in health inequalties for those who are wealthiest

Absolutely NinkyNonker! I agree. I am not saying the NHS is faultless but as a rule, people are morelikely to complain than praise. For every person who's had a rotten experience with the NHS there are probably 100 who've had a great experience but don't share it.

God, on top of that awful initial dx, you have then had to endure all this....shit!

So sorry.

I would agree with other posters....look into PALS, your local PCT and contact someone for legal advice.

I love the NHS. I will defend it till the end.

But I a also suffering fro PTSD due to the things I witnessed when my DD was sick. Some of that stuff was the unavoidable consquences of her illness and treatment. Some of it was down to the way we were treated, the mistakes that were made and even worse - the several 'near misses'

So YANBU at all. You have the right to feel the way you do.

I hope that you dont alays feel that way and you are ok x

You should have been seen within 2 weeks for a cancer referral. I would certainly complain to PALS, it could stop this from happening to someone else.

Mrs DV :(

OP at the end of the day - coming from an Americanish perspective - maybe you should think about 'constructive consumer feedback' (I know, I know, yack) rather than 'complaint'.

Would it make you feel better if, instead of suing, you wrote a personal letter to all the people involved and said what you think went wrong, how it affected you, and how they could do better for other patients in the future?

IME the NHS, like most institutions, closes ranks when the word 'complain' is heard. It gets people's backs up, they defend their own. They odn't listen. But maybe if you sent those consultants a privater letter, since they are probably caring competent people deep down, it might make them reflect and do better for someone else.

AKMD I can understand why you hate the NHS right now, but I'm sure there are other things they've done for you that you're quite happy with.

WRT your issues, first, your GP service is at fault to begin with. They should have referred you on the 2 week wait system - there's no way you should have had to wait 15 weeks to see a consultant. However, some hospitals (especially specialist services like neurology) do sometimes work a system where they discuss all cases in an MDM before they decide which patients they see and how quickly. If this was the case, they should have contacted your GP to let them know if they didn't need to see you quickly and your GP should have passed the info on to you.

Losing your notes is both worrying and frustrating, especially if it them holds up your care and treatment.

The surgical care you had sounds appalling.

As to the 2nd opinion, you'll find that most specialists in the same geographical area do know each other. It's hard for them to exist in complete isolation! I'm sure the latest dr only meant that she'd speak to the other dr to get an understanding of how he drew his conclusions and this doesn't mean that she'll agree with him. Why don't you get a copy of your notes/scans/xrays etc and you can ask for a private opinion if you want.

Maxpower's suggestion is good.
I have experience of health care in five different countries. The very best care has been given to me by the NHS.

If the answer is not to privatize then what is the answer? Because as it is, it is not working and the system is failing us.

Too many administrators and paper-pushers, not enough hands-on staff?

My mother was an NHS nurse and was forced out of her job thanks to the working conditions. She used to come home after 14+ hours shifts where she'd had one toilet break and no food, and then just collapse on the sofa in tears. She had to put up with abuse, people screaming orders at her left right and centre, all of the paperwork to sort out, patient complaints, Doctors who were so far up their own backside that their breath stank etc.

She dropped 4 stone due to the stress and the fact that she was on her feet almost constantly. When she finally left (no thanks to her cruel bitch of a boss) she wept tears of joy.

YANBU. That's a terrible way to be treated.

I think it's fair enough to hate the NHS (and I'm an old-fashioned lefty who supports a national health service). I think when you've gone through something like that, it's unfair for people to ask you to see the bigger picture and all the people who receive good treatment. When a close relative received terrible treatment from the NHS, it wasn't any consolation to think of the people elsewhere who were having a better time of it.