friend with cancer-finding the right words

[cottonreels]

Im going to try to be factual here as im feeling rather emotional about this. Also have some keyboard issues, please bear with me...

My good friend (male) has terminal pancreatic cancer. Has been told its unlikely he"ll live more than 6 months. His wife (also my good friend) is absolutely brilliant and is a total rock for him.

Im helping wherever I can, though I dont really know what I can do.

Anyway - what I need help with is that he keeps saying things like

"Whats the point (in carrying on)?"

"Everyones just waiting for me to die"

"Im just holding up proceedings"

Both his wife and I are trying to, firstly listen and, secondly reassure him that he is as wanted and loved as he was before.

What else could we say to those things? What would you say?

Im just rubbish at being succint and finding the right words. Also those words make me so choked up I cant sort out my own thoughts...

practical help is always good, cook meals, take washing away to clean and online shopping.
He properly isnt looking for an answer to his rantings, he is clearly at the anger stage right now, and thats normal and im not surprised.

Just listen, let him know he is loved and also if he has children make sure his made memory boxes, got laods of photos and cards written for future bdays and weddings x

Thanks Lisa.

Its odd he doesnt sound angry when he says it, rather factual and in more of a depressed tone (understandably). I know really that theres nothing I can say (certainly not the answer hes looking for), but it doesnt help me when he actually says those things as I obviously need to show that Ive heard him and need to respond in some way. But what to say to that??

Ive done some practical bits and pieces but it doesnt really make me feel like Im easing their burden at all, yet I am thinking about them constantly.

They dont have children. I wonder if theres somehing like a memory box that he could do for her...

So, so desperatly sad.

Macmillan do a bit of information on their website called talking to people with cancer here which might be helpful for you.

It is a desperately sad situation for your friends, and as shiney says there isn't a great deal you can say that will alleviate the situation.

sometimes you just have to be there and be the person to listen while they express their anger, grief, and fear. I think its important to let people say those things, - sometimes you just have to get it out in the open.

Has he got a Macmillan nurse? - IME they are excellent at talking through these sort of things with people who are dealing with this kind of diagnosis. They really do know the right things to say, and can help people with the idea of putting their affairs in order, and coming to terms with the prospect of end of life. And for many people sorting through those things associated with their death, can help people enjoy better what remains of their life.

So sorry that you are all going through this.

Thanks Shineon and Kurri. Hes early 40s. WE usually talk about almost everything together. But when he talks this way about his life I get so emotional I cant think what to say to make him feel better. Some people are just so good at that, I wondered if it was something I could learn to do perhaps.
I called Macmillan yesterday for a talk actually. She suggested quite a few things and was lovely and helpful, but a lot of her suggestions just dont work in this particular situation.
I think youre right, Its important that we hear his fears. But Im such a believer in cognitive psychology that I want to make the smallest twists and adjustments in what hes saying to make him see it from a different angle. Not that theres any other angle to see how youre losing your life, but on the little things. Im not sure Im making any sense even to myself. Sorry Im rambling.
Hes got a macmillan nurse - and yes I believe that shes amazing. I think shes coming today and i know hes dipped in mood massively in the last few days, so hopefully shell spot that and talk it out or change his meds or, oh i dont know, just something.
Shineon - Im sorry for what youre going through too. Utterly shit describes it pretty well.

If he has accepted the situation, would it be innappropriate to suggest a 'things I always wanted to do' ...list?
Then he and wife can try to enjoy last bits of special time.
Have no experience of this situation, so sorry if thats a really bad sugestion!

I would try to have some laughs with him and keep things light. I know that sounds ridiculous and a very tall order as it's such a heartbreaking situation, but when I think of the things that have made my life worth living, laughing with friends comes extremely high up the list and is something I'd love to think I'd be doing when I die.

i am with shiney here, i think her comeback was a good one. i would also say something along the lines of 'there is every point as we all love you and want to cherish the time we do have with you' or words to that effect.

so sorry you are going through this. my best friend has Stage 4 cancer and we have no idea whether she is going to get through this chemo or not i have a good idea how you are feeling. it is just heartbreaking

If it were me and he said something like that, I'd probably look him in the eye and say, I don't think that's true, is that how you really feel?

He does sound depressed and depression is anger turned inwards, pretty much. So he's saying these things in anger and sadness.

I doubt he really believes them but I don't know, and I've never been in his position. It does sound desperately sad.

It is hard to talk to a person you know is dying, especially hard if you know they are dying but they don't, or you're not sure if they do. The fact he knows might mean you could take the conversation in a different direction, such as saying 'are you afraid' or 'I would like to do something, but don't know what would help. Is there anything you would like me to do once you have gone?'

Sometimes people do want to discuss it, but don't want to put the burden on their friends so hedge around it.

I ended up writing a long letter with promises of what I would do afterwards, to make sure some things carried on as they were. Don't know if it helped, I think it did.

Cottonreels, I'm so sorry - what an awful situation for your friend to be in, ditto his family and his friends: ie you

Just to say, I would definitely support you in not doing the CBT thing with your friend at this point. He may just not feel 'heard' if you try and re-frame his thoughts, and of course the things he is saying are incredibly hard to hear. If I were in his shoes (hard as that is to imagine), I think I would hugely appreciate someone just listening and feeling it along with me, iyswim, not trying to change any of it.

Sorry if this is all obvious stuff, and you've heard it a million times before. There possibly isn't any harder situation to support a friend through, and I wish you the very best in it - you are clearly a wonderful pal.

Oh dear. I cant seem to see through my tears to type and read. Youre all helping though. Im going to come back later when I can get a handle on it again.

Sorry

I agree it's best not to try and sort of challenge his thoughts or try to tell him, I dunno, to think differently? He isn't really in control at the moment of what he thinks or feels, it's probably a bit of an automatic response and while it might not be the best one, no one can really be in his shoes - he needs to process it, and that's what it is, a process which with any luck he will soon be moving through and onto the next bit, iyswim.

Lots of love x

They have been getting a lot of pleasure out of doing the simple things and are not at all bothered by the grand plans, the like of holidays, helicopter rides etc.
Is there anything you would like me to do once you have gone?' This is such a good thing to say imo. Im going to try to find the right time to say that and honor any request - I hope that will do us both some good.
I think the general consensus is to allow him to feel sad/angry. Make sure I he knows I want to follow him on his journey (as much as I can) and that he continues to make a difference and our lives are the better for having him in it. And dont try to make him see it differently - I dont know how his situation feels, I cant describe it for him better than he can describe it for himself.
Jentacular that was a lovely thing to say and a good way of looking at things. Weve had a lot of laughs over the years. I must try not to feel guilt when I laugh with him now. It feels a bit like Im not appreciating the strain of it all or something. Laughing is important, as well as focussing on things that are not illness related. Im glad youve reminded me of that.
Martha Im sorry for you and your friend too. It really makes you want to reassess your life dont you think?

cottonreels that is so true. the one thing i struggled with when my BFF got her diagnosis, was my own feelings about my own mortality. She doesnt have kids (never wanted them) but i have a DS, and i couldnt stop thinking that i couldnt leave my DS, he was too young to lose his mum. of course this isnt happening to me but i struggled with it for a while.

i wish you all the best, you sound like an amazing friend and i am sure you will find the right words. you say they take pleasure in the simple things, these autumn sunny days are wonderful, perhaps a country walk somewhere.

all the best xx

Martha I'm sorry too. I lost my best friend last year, and she did leave small children, which was awful. I know she gave them the best start possible to enable them to cope better when she wasn't there any more.

Cottonreels, I know what you mean about not wanting to laugh etc...everything feels stilted. Plus when my friend was ill, she was very miserable, and I knew it, yet she was trying to stay happy for everyone around her. I didn't know where my role lay. I tried to let her set the tone, each time we spoke, but it was odd and difficult, mostly. However the times when we found something to laugh about were very special.
She also wanted an outlet, so I hope I let her rant about things she perhaps couldn't talk to her family about as they were unendingly positive and I don't think she wanted to upset them, so maybe you can be that for him too.

All the best xx

i am currently finding that my BFF wants to talk about BNTM, Downton Abbey, clothes, shoes, sleb gossip that kind of thing. Basically anything other than cancer treatment. OP i know your friend is male so maybe something male orientated along those lines?

JaneBirkin i too am sorry about your friend, how heartbreaking for her children

Martha - we had a long discussion about cars yesterday..very stereotypical!
A lack of siblings is also apparent in my friends situation and my dd is "an only", thats on my mind a lot. Also that "lifes too short" thing. Almost proposed to my dp after a visit with my friend last week! (Ideally, would like him to do it as Ive made lots of other fist moves, so resisted the urge)
Jane -I do also worry about leaving dd. Both what that would be like for her and also how utterly devasting that would be for me. The very thought of not being here for her fills me with a crushing panic. Its not me, and this is not about me but I guess Im trying to learn from it in the way we all try to learn from watching others do things. Youre right though - a best possible start counts for a lot. And is really all you can do.
My friends are ull of gratitude for all (the little) Im saying and doing - so I must be offering some of the right things and getting it right some of the time. Or even in crisis, they havent lost their impeccible manners.
Jane - I hope that you can talk to the children about their mum some day, Its what Id want my friend to do for me if I was the one leaving.
The Macmillan site says one in three people get cancer. And that really has scared the bejeezers out of me. That others friends and family are going to go through this, that there are 3 of us in my little family and so statistically that is one of us. Have lived a reasonably shelterd life so far - think Im growing up...

cottonreels your comment is very poignant:

''I do also worry about leaving dd. Both what that would be like for her and also how utterly devasting that would be for me. The very thought of not being here for her fills me with a crushing panic. Its not me, and this is not about me but I guess Im trying to learn from it in the way we all try to learn from watching others do things. ''

EXACTLY how i am feeling at the mo with DS.

But it is not us. What a tough life lesson we are learning

yes, the cancer figures are high. But try to remember that this includes elderly people, who have had their life, enjoyed it and are ready, if one ever can be, to go.

Cancer is still unusual among young people.

very best wishes to all of you x

Best wishes to all of you that have tried to help and know others who are so ill.
Your comments have really helped me gather my own thoughts together. Thank you

cottonreels, I went through something similar last year, it was my brother in law. He only survived for 11 weeks after diagnosis. I found it very difficult to know what to say at times but to be honest he didn't really want us to talk, he wanted us to listen, but the brain secondaries affected his speech so it was difficult for him at times. However through this I found it very important not to forget my sister, the nurses, doctors etc were looking after my BIL and I always tried to look out for my sister.

Quite early on I remember a conversation when we were both in tears, and I said something to her along the lines of that I had no idea how she was feeling, but that I really wanted to be there for them both and support them both. We did shopping for them and also made sure someone else was visiting at night to give my sister a lift home. That got very difficult because my mum was also in hospital (a different one) having a knee replacement at the same time. She brought her dh home for the last 3 or 4 weeks, they didn't realise how short it would be and we visited and spent some time with him once or twice a week allowing my sister to do other things (she was trying to hold down her job, but they were so good to her but there were certain meetings that she felt she really had to go to).

Sometimes you don't have to say anything. Just be there as I am sure you are. I am sure they will appreciate it and know that you are a caring friend. I know that my sister appreciated what we did as she told me so afterwards. That gets tough too but is another story.