risks/benefits of vaccinations

[EasyFriedRice]

I'm a mum of an 18 month DD and also a regular mumsnetter.

I couldn't find much "real" information in the media about risks/benefits of vaccinations but being a medical researcher I decided to look it up myself. I've posted what I found on my blog here

I'm not trying to self-promote, I just think that it's valuable information which should be out in the public domain.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks!

Nice one - thank you for sharing :)

Really clear and easy to read. Nice and succinct too. Thanks!

You've missed a few things out and it's obviously swayed because you're pro-vaccine. Sorry, but I don't think it helps anyone trying to find unbiased information - it would be nice to find somewhere that did....

But Bumbley if it was anti vaccine then it would be well researched and informative????

Excellent blog Easy BTW!

I agree it does omit the fact that no vaccine is 100% safe that there are funds for vaccine damaged children that certain groups of infants are more susceptible to damage based on their genetic / familial profile

I am personally pro-vaccination and all 4 of mine had MMR and full range of infant / childhood jabs

also lack of comments on lifelong immunity

Did you have to pay to have the MMR as an adult?

Thanks for your comments!

Yes I'm pro-vaccine so haven't really trawled all the anti-vac stuff... I preferred to head straight for the peer-reviewed established medical journals. Given that these are mostly inaccessible to the average person due to subscription costs, I thought it might be useful to summarise what I found there.

I didn't have to pay for the MMR. The practice nurse tried to refuse it saying it was a travel vaccine (given that I was going to France, where there's loads of measles at the moment). But I said, can I not just have it as part of the routine immunisation programme? She went and looked up on the DoH website and came back and said I could have it. I guess it's cheaper for the NHS than me coming home with measles after my holiday.

activate Interesting point on life-long immunity, I wonder if there is actually any research on that?

The thing is, I find as a medical researcher, that people ask very valid questions about side effects, risks etc, and you look into them, and there just hasn't been any research done on that question. So sometimes it just isn't possible to give a complete picture.

Ha ha at "haven't really trawled all the anti-vac stuff... I preferred to head straight for the peer-reviewed established medical journals"

That's a brilliantly subtle way to make a very good point.

Not really. I think you'll find that 'peer reviewed' doesn't make something true anyway.

Also, EFR, were you really unaware that vaccines don't provide lifelong immunity? Maybe you should do a bit more reading. There's some nice 'peer reviewed' stuff for you about whooping cough that you could start with and then you could move on to the mumps component of the MMR if you want...

Peer review is not a guarantee for truth (especially if the researcher simply lies - like Wakefield), the reviewers don't get access to the original data. It is a good start though, and on average, non-peer reviewed articles are not as good as peer reviewed articles.

Pertussis immunity, whether by simple vaccine, or 100 day cough, is not life long.

Of course I'm aware some vaccines don't offer lifelong immunity. That's why you have to have them every 10 years, have boosters, etc.

Perhaps you could send me the refs on whooping cough and mumps that you mention, bumbleymummy, I'm always happy to read more information and enter into discussion .

I'm not setting myself up as right, just offering a summary of what I found from a particular source of information that isn't available to the majority of people. Can't argue with that, surely?

I don't see too many people lining up for their whooping cough booster every 10 years

If you have such good access to the information then you are probably in a better position to find those refs yourself don't you think?

Only arguing with the idea of you presenting your blog as a source of information about the risks/benefits of vaccines when you haven't looked at things such as waning immunity etc.

me me me - got my dTaP/IPV booster as soon as possible after it was released, when I tried to persuade mother and in-laws to do the same, they already had (different GPs had suggested it - in Germany).

I'm in the UK and I don't think I could name a single person who has had a whooping cough vaccine as an adult or would bother going for one.

sadly - that meant I had to go out and pay for the dTaP/IPV when my DD was offered the dT/IPV through school...

also, our GP took down all vaccine info when we registered, but we are all up to date, so I am not sure whether they would have suggested anything had I not just had the booster (I actually got my measles titers tested because we were moving to the UK).

I think the life long immunity question is a bit of a red herring, now I've had time to reflect.
If we could invent a vaccine out of thin air, it would have no side effects and give lifelong immunity, of course.
But we can't do that and every vaccine has a profile of potential side effects and immunogenicity (how good the immune response is).
We can boost immunogenicity with adjuvants, but as I said in my blog, these have side effects, so are generally left out of childhood vaccines.
If we take the safest vaccine possible, it may not have the best immunogenicity with a single dose, and therefore children are given it several times.
Giving repeat vaccines throughout the life span may be a waste of resources.
For example, it may be enough to vaccinate 1) those who are most at risk of complications from the disease; 2) those who are most likely to catch the disease; and 3) those who are most likely to spread the disease. Unfortunately, children fall into all three of these groups.
Once people aren't in these high risk groups, their waning immunity may not be such a big issue.
So no, I don't see us all going for whooping cough vaccines regularly, but also I don't see hundreds of previously vaccinated adults coming down with whooping cough.
I'm happy to look up some references on life span immunity but it will take me a few days so you'll have to bear with me .

Aluminium (adjuvant) is in the 5-in-1 and another childhood one as well iirc.

Big increase in pertussis cases in adolescents and adults in the US over the last decade - somewhere for you to start :)

If you are incluing children who can spread the disease (presumably at school) as high risk, then they can just as easily spread it to their parents and other adults.
By the way, if the side effects mean that the immune system (and the vaccine) is working properly, then, if a child has no side effects from a jab, does that mean the vaccine has not worked?

Tabitha8

Good question.

Some vaccines cause reactions in most people, some don't. Reactions can vary between individuals due to things like already being imune to something or at least exposed to it.

I am pro-vaccination. You have mentioned all the common mild side effects, however, as a clinician I feel we should always admit that in a very few rare cases there can be serious side effects such as anaphlyaxis. This is listed on all data sheets for vaccines as a potential side effect.

Pertussis immunity, whether by simple vaccine, or 100 day cough, is not life long.
Oh crap - I had whooping cough as a child and it was horrible, but at least I assumed I would be immune. If I heard there was an outbreak here I'd get vacc'd.