MMR for a child with gut problems?

[tatt]

Now that thiomersil has been removed from vaccines is there still an autism risk? If there is does delaying the vaccine help and if the answer to that is yes how long do you delay?

A friend is trying to decide when to vaccinate their child who has gut problems. The problems were posibly caused by allergies that were not diagnosed for some months. I don't know if there is any family history of immune problems, I don't think so, and there's no history of autism.

I've read Hornig's work and that seems to point to thiomersil as the issue with MMR. I know the child has been vaccinated but with thiomersil free vaccines.

I was under the impression that thimersol has not been in MMR , maybe never, and certainly not in recent years, anyway.

There are def. people on here who felt that MMR (without thimersol) is a risk, but I'm not pretending to know enough myself to comment.

unfortunately there's no definitive answer to those questions...

I'm not looking for a definitive answer. I would like to find out if the anti MMR lobby still believe there is a problem with MMR. There used to be a theory that the number of immunisations given in a short period upset the immune system. Any recent research that supports that or is all the attention now on thiomersal?

This is a male baby with persistent gut problems (doctors say the latest ones are down to a virus) so we're obviously concerned that he may be one of the minority with a high risk from vaccination.

search MMR and my name (or Jimjams). I've put a link in several threads to a recent presentation by Wakefield (this year). It goes through all the isuues, the role of the gut, the role of MMR, the role of thimersal- what is known, what isn't. It's powerpoint, so you have to read between the lines a bit (you can buy a cd of the actual presentation, although I haven't) but it's the most up to date summary I've seen.

Depends what the gut problems are I would guess. There was a post yesterday on the other MMR thread with a quote from a consulatant immunologist (I think iirc) specifically about MMR and crohns.

Yes it was from me. I have Crohn's and he said that if he were in my position he would not give the single vaccine.

countessdracula that is interesting. I have been told the same thing about my ds who has gut problems by a well respected doc who gives singles - he wasn't comfortable giving even singles to my son, tho he stressed it was normally OK for people.

cd did he say no measles jab at all, or no MMR?

Thanks - looks like post 3 they are saying no risk. Not sure if the parents will wait that long.

I will be following this thread with interest... my dd who is 6+ months had her last jabs last week (the hib/dip and the meningitis #3...). She had some quite bad reflux over the summer which we had put down to a change of milk formula while on holiday, and it took about 4-6 weeks for it to settle down. She then started solids (baby rice etc) at 5 months, and everything seemed to be fine. Now this last set of jabs seems to have triggered another bout of reflux, and thinking back to dates over the summer etc, I'm sure it was jabs #2 that triggered the 1st lot off. Should I therefore be worrying about her MMR jabs in the future? Is it worth speaking to a paediatrician about it? I hope I'm not hi-jacking this thread, just hoping to learn from some of your experiences, thanks!

I never mind hijacks, we're all supposed to be trying to help each other. Orangina it seems that what happens in the gut is very important. Reflux tends to improve as a baby gets older and that's more a problem with the valve at the top of the stomach than the digestion. If I've understood the information properly it looks like you only need to worry if the child is having problems with their immune system or there is a family history of immune problems/ autism. Even then it looks like thiomersal (mercury, americans spell it slightly differently) may be required to trigger the problem. So unless you're been eating lots of mercury rich seafood or having dental work in pregnancy or your child develops more severe problems you don't need to worry.

The presentation did mention using probiotics to strengthen the immune system. They may also help with temporary problems with milk. Live yoghurt is the easiest source, plenty of supplements available.

I've been giving dd infant probiotics (ABC Dophilus) in her milk about 4-5 times a week since I stopped b/f ing her. So that's something good to hear. Both me and dh have had on-off IBS throughout our adult lives, so who knows whether we are a bit predisposed to gut related problems anyway.... Glad to hear that the reflux shouldn't present too much to worry about, but it was odd how she has been as happy as larry since about early September, and then this weekend she was screaming in pain again (). So Tatt, are all vaccines now mercury free? Am on a steep learning curve just now.... thanks for your help!

I've been doing some reading since 1st looking at this thread, and there does appear to be some evidence that it is not just the mercury in the MMR that can be linked to autism, but just the live measles virus itself (or am I mistaken? There are so many vaccines/autism experts on mumsnet, I don't want to get it wrong!). If that is the case, then it would appear that the autism risk would be reduced with no mercury, but will not have disappeared entirely.
Please someone correct me if I've got the wrong end of the stick!

I'm not an expert - and I think the mumsnetters who are have got tired of MMR threads. I think there may be some vaccines that still have mercury but they aren't the ones normally given to young children - don't rely on that, though, jus ask before each injection.

I don't think anyone knows what causes autism but thiomersil is being blamed for some of it with measles being one of the triggers.

Since vaccines affect the immune system they may make your baby more susceptible to problems with milk.