scared of not vaccinating

[mumsgotatum]

Hello, At the moment I am currently reading Dr Richard Halvosen's book, 'The Truth about Vaccines'. I am finding it and interesting and quite alarming read.
I have a 7 mth old DD who has not been vaccinated apart from BCG in hospital. I have been reluctant to take her for any of her vaccinations; partly because I have a DS (3.5 yrs), who I did get vaccinated and I just couldn't bear taking him. (Dad took him)...and also because I have been procrastinating about it, and can't make up my mind one or another. It's a minefield!
I have quite a few friends who have not vaccinated at all, and then it looks as though Dr Halvosen does offer some single vaccinations. With my DS I did get him vaccinated because I didn't really know any better and wasn't so informed on the subject. He has had only one MMR.
As mentioned quite a few of my friends have not vaccinated and very happy with their decision. They have made an informed choice and are convinced they are doing the best for their children.
But somehow I do feel scared of not vaccinating, are there any mums out there who did not vaccinate and do you feel ok about your decision? Did you ever feel fear? What about playgroups or large groups of children?
Or any mums who did vaccines privately or have consulted with Dr Halvosen?
Just trying to get help making a decision...it's very difficult....

Thanks

I assume you are referring to the MMR or has your DD not had any vaccinations at all?

If so I think you need to find out all the facts about vaccinations from an unbiased source.

I am 52 and remember seeing children walking around in leg splints because they contracted polio. You never see this in the UK nowadays because the polio vaccine is very effective. Smallpox has been completely wiped out, again due to a successful vaccination programme. I had measles as a child and was dreadfully ill. My eyesight is very poor as a result (measles can affect the eyes)

Children often fall over and graze their knees. Dirt can get into the graze and, if you are unlucky, so can tetanus.

I urge you to think very carefully about the implications of not vaccinating at all.

I have not vaccinated dd at all after ds2 had substantial problems after his vaccinations.

But I review this regularly and make sure the decision I have made is the best one I can. I am not fearful because for my child the vaccination constitutes a threat. And I had mumps and measles and am old enough to recall when these were considered generally fairly mild illnesses. I don't panic about those things although I take all illness seriously.

If you are anxious then perhaps you have not made the right decision for your child. Speak to your gp.

There is no right decision but if you have no family history, no contra indications , then not vaccinating because you don't like the child to have the jabs is probably not a great idea.

"but if you have no family history, no contra indications, then not vaccinating because you don't like the child to have the jabs is probably not a great idea."

I agree. I suggest you talk to a health professional before you decide not to bother at all.

It's not about not 'bothering' to vaccinate. It's not a decision I take lightly. It's about making an informed choice. And also Dr Halvosen's book is not anti vaccination, by the way. He suggest an alternative vaccination schedule.
Also it's not just about not wanting baby to have jabs, it's about what's in those jabs.
DS1 (3.5) has had all vaccinations and one MMR, DD had no vaccinations but BCG. I wouldn't necessarily talk to a health professional or GP because they are (the ones I've spoken to), completely pro-vaccination and not necessarily well informed about the potential dangers of vaccinations. They only know what they have been told and what they are supposed to say as their job. Obviously unless they were extremely interested in vaccinations; their effects, their ingredients etc, such as they would conduct extensive research on the subject, then I wouldn't expect them to have more than a working knowledge about vaccinations.
What I was interested in was hearing about some experiences and viewpoints of those members of Mumsnet who have chosen not to vaccinate.

A gp should be able to give you a decent over view of the potential risks around the diseases which you seek to avoid.
And assuming that gps will just chuck out a party line may be underestimating your individual doctor.
I have given dd no vaccinations at all but have discussed this at length with my gp and I value his imput.

I am happy to give you my view or experience but in fairness your op does just sound like you are wobbling. What do you want from others?
I never doubt my decision but I never assume it is perfect. And I have to accept responsibility for the possibility of my dcs contracting an illness. I take much more care if they are I'll and keep them away from other children if I have any reason at all to suspect they may be I'll.
If I were scared every time she mixed with other children or went abroad then I would vaccinate. But I am not.
Not a perfect decision. But the best one for my dcs.

Sorry. Auto correct is making ill into I'll

My MiL had polio as a child and still wears a caliper as a result. She has had to suffer a life of pain and preventable disability, knows she will die younger than she should etc. If she had been a year younger, she'd have been vacc'd.

I would not wish that on anyone, let alone my own much loved child. For me its a black and white issue. Everyone who can be should be vaccinated, the details of the regimen they choose are up to them/their parents.

I do feel 'wobbly' around this...I just do. So i was interested in hearing the views of those who had not vaccinated and maybe those who have followed an alternative vaccination schedule, perhaps paid privately.

I just want to do the right thing and find the whole vaccination issue so difficult to navigate. Also am quite indecisive by nature.

It is increibly difficult because there is no one right answer.

I think that I probably will vaccinate in the end, but I will do it privately where they seperate out the vaccinations so it's not the 5 in 1. I just know that because of my nature i will probably always wonder if I did the right thing

Sorry, just want to jump in here to say that there hasn't been a case of polio in the UK since the early 80's and paralytic polio only occurs in 1% of cases and in a large proportion of those cases it is temporary. I'm not belittling anyone's experience of this disease but I think it is important to have accurate information and not just throw around scary anecdotes every time someone mentions that they've delayed vaccinating. Where exactly is this 7 month old supposed to contract polio? Unless the OP is currently living in India perhaps?...

Mumsgotatum, I would recommend reading about each disease, its incidence, risks, complications etc. That information will help to reassure you and make the decision that you feel most comfortable with. Many parents choose to delay and/or spread out vaccines - you need to make the decision that you feel is best for you and your family.

"Sorry, just want to jump in here to say that there hasn't been a case of polio in the UK since the early 80's and paralytic polio only occurs in 1% of cases and in a large proportion of those cases it is temporary"

But that is largely due to the very successful vaccination programme. I suggest you read this and this and who can forget images like this

exactly bunbaker. those who dont have a good reason not to vaccinate are basically free riding on those of us who did vaccinate our children. and what about when your dc goes abroad etc? i went through the whole 'dangers' of vaccine thought process and there are people for whom there is a genuinely good reason not to. but for most of us it is simply not taking proper social responsibility and is careless for the sake of your own child.

Actually bunbaker polio cases were reducing before the introduction of the vaccine due to improvement in sanitation etc so you can't attribute the decline solely to the vaccine. Regardless of that, my point was that giving scare stories to the OP about polio because she hasn't vaccinated are a bit ridiculous seeing that she isn't exactly at risk of contracting polio in the UK! An anecdote about another of the diseases may have been more relevant.

nowwearefour - some people choose not to vaccinate against certain diseases for many reasons and I know very few who choose to do so with the intention of 'free riding'. The herd immunity argument comes up a lot - and you may find this interesting. I personally wouldn't depend on another child's vaccination status purely to protect my own.

oops!

Thank you for the links bunbaker. Did you actually read them yourself?

"Polio is a viral illness that, in about 95% of cases, actually produces no symptoms at all (called asymptomatic polio). In the 4% to 8% of cases in which there are symptoms (called symptomatic polio), the illness appears in three forms:

-a mild form called abortive polio (most people with this type may not even suspect they have it because their sickness is limited to mild flu-like symptoms such as mild upper respiratory infection, diarrhea, fever, sore throat, and a general feeling of being ill)
-a more serious form associated with aseptic meningitis called nonparalytic polio (1%-5% show neurological symptoms such as sensitivity to light and neck stiffness)
-a severe, debilitating form called paralytic polio (this occurs in 0.1%-2% of cases)"

Thanks bubblemummy....I am still reading up on vaccines..and thanks for the interesting links.

It is ridiculous to suggest that I am 'free-riding' on the rest of the population who do decide to vaccinate. People always seem to jump on their high horse about this without actually having read about it in any depth or doen any research. I guess it's the easy argument to make

Yes I did. I am prepared to see both sides of the argument. Incidentally if you were to cut yourself badly and need hospital treatment one of the first things they do at hospital is offer you an anti tetanus jab.

It is worth noting that the polio vaccine is a live one and remains in the system for up to 6 weeks, so if you haven't been vaccinated you need to be extra careful when changing nappies of recently vaccinated children. DD was in hospital for several weeks at the same time her first vaccinations were due so they gave her the diphtheria and tetanus one as normal and then gave her the polio one after she was discharged and literally as we were going out of the door.

Bunbaker we don't use the live polio vaccine anymore in the UK - it's the IPV (inactivated) vaccine we use so there is no risk from changing nappies. The OPV was actually causing cases of polio when it was in use. Unfortunately it is still used in some developing countries because it is the cheaper vaccine.

Re tetanus - yes it is routine to offer a tetanus jab in hospital for any wound. Even one that has been nowhere near the tetanus bacterium! Eg a cut with a kitchen knife. There are about 7 cases ( cases not deaths) of tetanus every year in the UK. Usually in the elderly. The last case of tetanus in an under 15 was in 2000/01 iirc and the girl had been fully vaccinated. she made a full recovery.

Thanks for that yummy. I didn't know that. My experience was ten years ago.

Hi op.

I don't recommend either way. I don't like vax. I just want to comment on your fear.

I had a fear of not doing it, because my reasoning went (back in my old days) -- at least if I vaccinate, and something goes wrong, I know I've done the right thing, and it won't be my fault. Whereas if I don't, and something goes wrong, I'll be to blame.

I just waited and waited in a wibble of indecision until they just didn't have them (except the infant ones which they had late.)

Anyhoo, my point is, I've now realised that yes, you are on your own if you don't vaccinate and something goes wrong. HOWEVER if you do vaccinate, and something goes wrong, you are also on your own.

Your doctor and health visitor will ignore you and disbelieve you and put it down to coincidence. You will get no support from the systems you trusted. You could be accused of hysteria, child abuse, murder, Munchausen's syndrome. You could be threatened with having your children taken away from you. In fact being ignored and left with no support is probably the best you can hope for. All these things happen or have happened to parents who have vaccine-damage children or who claim their children were vaccine damaged.

That's all really.

"those who dont have a good reason not to vaccinate are basically free riding on those of us who did vaccinate our children."

this is not true. I regret my children not having the opportunity to catch mumps and measles because of vaccinated children.

"and what about when your dc goes abroad etc?"

My children have travelled through Asia unvaccinated. Some jolly ropy places too.

n fact the "vaccinations for abroad" argument undermines the rubbishy old herd immunity wives tale.

Your vax aren't supposed to work unless we're all done. But not, apparently, when it comes to "abroad".

i dont understand how the abroad argument undermines the herd argument. the diseases arent rife here because so many people are immunised hence they arent prevalent so the un-immunised are far less likely to catch them. abroad, where diseases are far more common, surely the immunised are still far less likely to catch because of their immunisation. it is great that your children were completely fine right but they might not have been, and surely they were a lot less likely to be fine because they were not immunised? but i certainly am not dogmatic. each family has a right to choose. the op was asking so i gave an opinion. i am not an expert and i did look v v seriously into not vaccinating my own children because of the risks associated with them etc. but at the end of the day my dh and i chose to vaccinate for the reasons i set out above.