Anyone researched vaccines and can help me make informed decision?

[rimsky]

Posted this in Children's Health also.

My DS received his 8 week jabs 3 weeks ago (the 5 in 1 and PCV). He was ill for 2 days, with a fever of 38.1 degrees c. He was inconsolable, and doses of calpol didn't seem to help at all. I was quite surprised at his reaction as he is a robust baby (75th centile) and assumed he would be ok.

I'm not sure if this is related, probably coincidence but since the jabs he hasn't seemed the same baby, very jumpy amd easily upset.

Both of these things are worrying and upsetting for me.

He is due his 12 week jabs next week and I really need some help making a decision.

What concerns me is many people say the reaction is worse for the 12 weeks than the 8 week jabs - is this true?

Is it possible that 6 immunisations too much for a small baby to cope with? Would single vaccinations be better?

Can I delay the jabs due at 12 weeks until I feel he is old enough to deal with a reaction better? Are there implications to this?

Or (and I really don't want this to turn into a debate) should I stop immunising him? Could someone has decided not to immunise tell mewhat research they have done, and could somebody summarise it or send me links (big ask I know!).

I just haven't the time to research the pros and cons and I haven't got much time to make my decision!

TIA

Also, have seen somewhere a link between SIDS and vaccinations, does anybody have any research on this?

I just haven't the time to research the pros and cons and I haven't got much time to make my decision

I think you need to find time, tbh. No one can tell whether you need to keep vaccinating, or stop. And not doing your own research into a vital part of childhood, is reckless, especially if you stop vaccinating!

To answer one question, you may delay for as long as you wish to. You may also choose to have some jabs done on the NHS but avoid others.
Hope that's a start for you!
DS aged 18 mths hasn't had any jabs at all yet. Not sure he will any.
I read a book by Halvorsen. There are plenty out there. I bought about four on Amazon.
The Arnica website has lots of info.
By the way, all the info I looked at was probably biased against vacs, I have to admit.
www.arnica.org.uk/
My thoughts went along the lines of - how dangerous are these diseases really? That was my starting point.

how dangerous are these diseases really?

My friend's baby (18mths) has been hospitalised twice for diseases that we vaccinate against! She has had no vaccinations.

First was rota virus. Her daughter was so dehydrated (through vomiting) that she spent 3 days in hospital. The only reason she is still alive is because my friend had to fetch her middle daughter from Kindy, so had to go in & wake the baby. The dr told her another 30 minutes & they wouldn't have her here. My daughter also caught it, she was off her food/drink for 48 hours, but nothing worse than that.

The second time was whooping cough. Again, dehydrated due to vomiting. She spent 24 hrs in hospital being hydrated. Only caught this time because her grandmother recognised the signs from first time.

So I would say they have the potential to be pretty dangerous, in some cases.

I should say that before we realised she had whopping cough, both my girls were in contact with her & her sister (again, not vaccinated & had whopping cough).

Neither of them contracted it, I had them swabbed when I found out that friend's girls had + diagnosis.

And there have been 2 reported deaths from whopping cough here recently.

Is the rota virus jab part of the baby schedule now? I wasn't aware of that. Mind you, there are several strains of it.

OP it all goes to show that you need to do your own research before you make your decision. You'll come across stories of children being damaged by the disease and others by the vaccine. A very hard choice, I know.

Where are you different name? The US? rotavirus isn't part of the UK schedule afaik.

rimsky, just read as much as you can and delay until you feel that you have enough information. There is no problem with delaying - the schedule in the UK is just a guideline and it varies from country to country. If your child was ill you would have to postpone for a few weeks anyway.

I found looking at information about the diseases themselves very helpful - incidence, risks, potential complications, treatments etc. The Richard Halvorsen book is a useful starting point. I was quite shocked by how exaggerated the risks of some of these illnesses were and how vaccinations have been given so much credit for eliminating diseases that were well on the decline anyway.

Good luck with your reading. It really is a difficult decision to make.

different name - are you in the states?

You really will have to spend time doing your own research - surely something so important whatever you choose deserves this? No one can make a choice for you - it must be an informed decision, either way! You can just delay and spend sometime researching if you are not sure.

There are lots of strong opinions on both sides of the fence you will find - but you need to be secure in your own choice, whatever others say

We're up against this one now, MMR was 'due' a month ago. I decided to go with the earlier ones because DD is a robust baby, and have a friend with 3 (count 'em, THREE) autistic children, and she's still in favour of vaccination. (Had a long chat about it, she works in the medical field, and no, she's not the hospital cleaner.)

It's a toughie. I advise giving yourself time. Although the timing is suggested by the NHS (and I've occasionally felt pressurised by them), I think it's up to you whether you delay or avoid them altogether.

I know families who haven't done them at all - all children grew into healthy adults. I also know far more families who have vaccinated - all children are fine so far!

I hate it, but to give myself some comfort that I was giving DD the best of all things available, I did phone a homeopathics company who sent me several remedies to use in the few days beforehand, on the day, and afterwards. There is some homeopathic support you can give children to support their bodies for whatever short-term side effects may appear.

I've done lots of reading about it and still feel ambivalent. You're not alone!! I have horrific fears about it, but also fears about the diseases themselves. I had a chat to my mum about it (she remembers when these diseases were commonplace.) She said lots of children coped fine, but a minority had horrible and severe reactions, there were some deaths too. What's worse?? Either way, there is risk. Even if generally in the UK we are lucky enough to be quite disease-free, there are enormous amounts of international traffic, and some people from abroad may not be.

Sorry to sound like the voice of doom! I don't mean to be, I just feel confused too. Think I will go ahead with MMR in the new year, but that will create a fairly lengthy delay. I like to think that the older she is, the more able she will be to cope with it. Ugh!! (Sorry, this is v long.)

I haven't given dd any vaccinations but I would be the first to say that you cannot take other peoples advice on this.
You have to make time and research . And ultimately there is no right answer ... Anyone who tells you there is is an idiot.

Tbh the only people who will tell you whether to immunize or not are exactly the people you should ignore.

This is it. This is parenting. You have to take the responsibility and you have to make the choice.
No excuses or shifting it on to others.

If it is any comfort. Whatever choice you make is likely the right one. The bad outcomes, either illness or vaccine damage, are the rarity.
Ds got vaccine damage. Bad shit. It happens

Thanks to everyone for responding!

I think my original post was not correctly worded, due to panicked thoughts at midnight when I should have been asleep.

I do and will take the time to do the research. DS has got a cold now anyway so will not be having the vaccinations next week as planned.

I suppose in my heart of hearts I am more anti-vaccine than pro-vaccine, but didn't want to get flamed for a post that stated this. I really would like to get my hands on some research from the anti-vaccine side, so I think I will read the Halvorsen book - thanks for the recommendation.

My own personal experience of childhood illness has made me quite confused. I caught whooping cough (my mum refused the vaccine) and it was not much more than an incovenience (I missed the school nativity play). Same with other childhood diseases. However, my cousin contracted meningitis and is now severely disabled.

I would like to know a little bit more about adverse reactions. Pagwatch, is it possible I could ask you about your DS, though I understand if you don't want to talk about it in detail.

I'm quite untrusting of the pharmaceutical industry, and don't believe we always get what's best due to this industry and the medical practitoners that use them.

I will delay til the new year so will have some time over xmas break to read up whilst DP helps with DS.

Sorry, am in Australia. It is routine over here.

Excellent post from Pagwatch. Completely agree with her this is parenting line.

Rimsky

Ds1 big healthy happy boy, chicken pox at 12months and was quite unwell. Vaccines at 18 months and hecwas immediately very unwell, big hot red lump at site of jab. Poorly for three weeks, crying, stopped talking and babbling, started screaming constantly, bowels went to pot and stopped eating regular food. Within two months had lost all developed skills, all language, babbling ceased, started stimming.
Disnosed with severe asd before 3. Severe intolerances and gut problems identified at 31/2.
Change of diet led to return of speech and reduction in behaviours but he remains severely disabled.

Should add, actually must add..
I had huge swelling and pain at site of jabs I had and we have history of odd immune systems. Ds2 not usual case iyswim

rimsky, I don't envy your journey! I remember fighting with myself over whether to have dd1 vaccinated with the MMR (was during the big controversy about it, we lived in the UK at that time, so no escaping it, as all over papers etc). I did my research, talked to a couple of people I really respected about it, who were in the medical field. And finally decided, with dh, that she would have it.

But we agonised for months. It did make it easier to give dd2 her vaccines although it was delayed a couple of times due to illness.

I must say, I am pro vaccine (as is obvious here, probably) but I respect the choices of those who are anti, like my friend. Sometimes I don't understand her choices, I have to say. And I am sure that that is only because I am so pro. It is a subject we are both very fiercely opinionated on, so we no longer discuss it!

Be prepared to get lots of good & bad stories for why you should vaccinate, and lots as to why you shouldn't! You have to sieve through it all!

Good Luck!

IIRC, one of my DC had a similar reaction to 8 week jabs but no significant reaction to 12 week ones.

I have a friend whose DD reacted very very badly to 8 week jabs (can't remember all the details, but it's as bad or worse than OP's story). Family did a lot of travelling so they went ahead with all the further regular jabs and she seems basically ok now (almost 7yo). A bit slow at maths, which stands out compared to her very bright siblings :).

If you choose not to vaccinate any more I'm sure that you can find heaps of support online to not vacc. It's probably easier to be anti-vax than pro-vax online, really.

Understanding and acceptance is about the reverse in real life :). I admit I have struggled (but succeeded so far!) to bite my tongue about one friend's unvaxd son -- the family has already been hit by a huge bereavement and it torments me to think of another one happening to them.

Just keep in mind there's no risk-free decision.

Ragged
That is very wise of you.
I give my childrens health the very highest concern and consideration. I have researched and discussed and agonized about thses choices.
A friend who delivered trite advice about death risks would appear to me to be no friend at all.

It's very hard to be rational after my friend (the boy's mother) died in the summer.
I think I'm just pointing out that when people do say things (critical of the decision not to vacc), it's usually not because they don't like you or your judgements, it's because they care about the best outcome.

I get that ragged.
I was agreeing with you. I completely understand that it is hard when that is your strong belief

I am always very grateful when a friend may feel strongly that vaccinating is the right thing to do but keeps her opinion to herself. And I am stressing that a friend should fight that instinct, however strongly felt because it implies both that you feel you have the 'right' view and that they are endangering their child. And that they have made the decision foolishly, lightly or recklessly.
Ultimately, telling a parent that you feel they should vaccinate is almost always well intentioned. That does not stop it from, at the same time being hugely judgemental and offensive.
But I agree why people want to. I sm just exposing why I believe they should not.

I feel pretty inarticulate tho{ugh so I hope it makes sense

Well personally I wouldn't even say "I think you should" -- just more like "Have you thought about...? I'd hate to see anything bad happen..."

But I'm not going to say any of it unless he brings the topic up. Am just putting it out my mind otherwise.

Exposing[sigh]

That should be explaining...

there is book and a very active forum called 'bad science'

read the book and ask questions on the forum.

Well informed and well educated people will help be able to help your decision making process

Tim O'shea has written a worth while book to read, although can be hard to get hold of - "sanctity of human blood". Another is "childhood vaccination". can't remember who this one is by.
Its really important to know how to care for a child with childhood diseases if you make the decision not to vaccinate. With the right care these diseases go away/self-right on their own, then the child will be immune for life, rather than temporarily like with most vaccinations.