Toddlers to get '6 in one' jabs

[Mukoli]

Hi,
I was really shocked this week when I read the article about this new proposal to give so many jabs in one go. I am also sad that nobody seems to pay attention to this news....
My friend's son got 6 vaccinations on the same day and he completely collapsed and developed a serious diabetes. His mum is a single mum now, because his father wasn't able to cope with all the 'trouble' and he left.
"The experts" say it's safe so when something goes wrong, you are all alone.

Leonie - the illnesses we vaccinate against are killers. It is vaccination and better healthcare that are keeping children safe. By not vaccinating your children at all you are potentially endangering them. Do you know what diptheria does? Polio? Tetanus? These illnesses are not extinct and they don't exist just to make money for drug companies. Go to any victorian graveyard and you will see what the world looks like without vaccination.

Leonie - as far as I can tell from a quick google the death rate from tetanus is between 15 and 45% for unvaccinated people. I refuse to believe the risk of harm from that well used and accepted vaccine exceeds the risk of death should your child contract tetanus. You're betting that they won't - and since the tetanus bacteria exists in the environment and is accidentally introduced in to the body I can't see how you can possibly feel any certainty in that.

Is Hep B really being promoted in the baby schedule over here now?

Form what I have read, it is likely that it is Hep B that caused a lot of dd1's issues (and, infuriatingly, Hep B was the jab that we refused for dd1, but the nurse went ahead and gave it to her anyway. She was 3 days old.)

I didn't think it was part of the baby schedule over here.

Hell would have to freeze over before I even considerd giving any child of mine 6 jabs at the same time (if nothing else, if there is a reaction, even a "minor" one, it would be hard to cut through the doc's bullshit over which jab was causing it, even if you managed to get it recognised as a reaction in the first place...)

Northern, there are about 7-10 cases of tetanus in the UK every year - cases not deaths. You are more likely to get struck by lightning than catch tetanus. Most cases of tetanus occur in the elderly and, iirc, the last case of tetanus in an under -15 was back in 2000/2001 and the girl had been fully vaccinated.

Also, are you aware that only 1% of cases of polio are paralytic and a large percentage of those cause only temporary paralysis? The majority of cases of polio are asymptomatic or cause flu-like symptoms. I found this very interesting because to most people polio = paralysis/death and that isn't the case at all.

Hep B is not contagious in the same way that e.g. chicken pox is. It requires contact with bodily fluids, blood, vaginal/seminal secretions etc. Hep B is frequently contracted by newborns from their infected mother as they are born; hence, I would suspect, the reason for giving it so early - IF there is a need for it. Can't see the need if the mother isn't infected.

I can't remember if DS was offered Hep B - I would have refused it if he was, as I am covered. I refused the proffered TB jab - on his first day FFS! - I remember what that did to me, there wasn't any way in the world I was letting it happen to my shiny new baby!

Oh and I didn't let DS have the second PCV jab either because he had a very unpleasant reaction to the first one.

In Australia, it's standard practice to give chickenpox at 18m. DS hasn't had it of course because he was older than that when we arrived here. No one has mentioned it yet - I only found out the other week that it was normal to have it.

How can 4 doses of Tetanus jab provide you with lifelong immunity when even contarcting the disease does NOT offer immunity?

Tetanus jab is not against the infective organism, it's against the toxin that causes the paralysis. And I'm pretty sure it's 5 doses, not 4 - once I'd had my 5th one they told me I didn't need to have any more UNLESS I had a rusty nail type injury, in which case they still recommended an emergency shot to be on the safe side.

If five doses gives lifelong immunity, then what difference does a rusty nail in the foot make? Surely you are still protected? Unless five doses isn't enough?

this is the NHS advice on tetanus.
5 jabs give lifelong immunity but it is recommended that a high risk accident with deep cuts/soil/rusty nails etc. is treated with direct anti-toxoid human immunoglobulin for extra protection.
I would expect that this is due to the fact that it can take the body a little while to produce antibodies, even after full immunisation (1-2 days normally, as opposed to 3-5 days for "new" pathogens) so the immunoglobulin is given to prevent the toxins having any effect while the bod is responding.

I thought the 5 doses thing with tetanus came about because it is recommneded (other than dire emergency) that you do not have more than 5 due to side effects.

I have had my 5 (long ago - mixture of clumsy child and living abroad).

I was recently bitten by a dog (quite badly- deep puncture wound) and the nurse at the clinic was reluctant to give me a tetanus jab as I had had my lot (have to say I agreed with her)

so, it was down to keeping an eye out, etc.

now, I err on the side of caution with these htings anyway, but it was the nurse who first mentioned I shouldn't have another one unless absolutely necessary - stick to lots of washing of wound, etc.

The emergency jab is not a vaccine. It is human immunoglobulin - i.e. antibodies to the toxin. The vaccine is attenuated toxin to allow your own body to make antibodies to the toxin.
So your nurse was incorrect if she thought you should have had another tetanus vaccine - you should have been given immunoglobulin, not vaccine.

interesting.

but hey ho, I'm still alive

so clearly was not necessary anyway in that instance.

but you wouldn't have had your full set of vaccines as a teen, so that's probably why.

It really is only an extra safety measure - say your immune system wasn't working very well for any reason, it might not respond quickly enough to the toxins, so you might get some paralysis. But then again, a dog bite might not have had the tetanus bacteria in it, so you wouldn't have got it anyway. The tetanus bacteria mostly lives in soil (it's anaerobic, so doesn't like oxygen).

Glad you're still alive anyway!

they gave me the card because no-one could work out how many tetanus doses I'd had (very clumsy child emoticon)

it was a "don't think about having another as you've probably already exceeded your maximum amount" card

but yeah, I know the bacteira/soil stuff - I was gearing up to quote all that to the nurse, to avoid another jab when she got there first...

heh heh - that's quite worrying!! (the "we don't really know how many doses you've had", not the other stuff)

oh, all due to a big balls up where my notes got sent away instead of another patient wiht the same name, when that patient moved away.

so lost notes scenario no.1

a year later, the new surgery worked out they had the worng notes, so sent for the "proper ones"

lost notes no.2

so no-one had a record of what was going on...

My concern with jabs is giving too many at once. The nurses spout about protecting against diseases, and I agree - but loads of jabs at the same time is not about protecting, it's about convenience and cost saving.

When I asked for DD's infant jabs to be spread out ( I didn't like the thought of her having 7, over 3 jabs, on the same day) - the only argument that the practice could come up with was that it would be inconvenient for me to walk to the surgery several times to get the jabs separately.

There is no way in hell I would allow so many jabs at once anywhere near my child. It is just so unnecessary.

DS had this last year when we went for the MMR - the nurse told me that they'd started offering them all together now, but it was up to me. I was fine with it, he had them, had no reaction whatsoever.

No offense Rhian, but you don't know the long term effects yet. No one will until it's been going on for a few years and unfortunately trials are not usually followed up into adulthood so no one may ever really know if there are any consequences in the long run.