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Original poster

If (single) measles jabs only last for 3 years....

39 replies

goingbacktowork · 09/08/2010 22:00

why do we bother giving them?

My daughter is due for her second single measles jab this week. However the clinic said that generally they are effective for only 3 years. Well if this will take her to age 7-8 what is the point? Won't she just be more likely to get measles when she is this age?

Thanks

OP posts:
SurreyDad · 10/08/2010 06:36

Maybe that's why we don't bother giving them?

Original poster
goingbacktowork · 10/08/2010 06:47

so you don't give mmr or singles jabs?

I am trying to find some clarification that what I have ben told by clinic is indeed the case

OP posts:
SurreyDad · 10/08/2010 10:35

Not on the NHS, no. They refuse to do it.

Tabitha8 · 10/08/2010 16:18

So, does the MMR last for longer, does anyone know?

Tabitha8 · 10/08/2010 18:25

Ordinarily, I love a mystery, but DS is 14 mths and measles is something that I've been thinking about a bit more.
Assuming MMR is effective for 30 years (it's easy enough to ignore "lifelong" until 80 or 90 years have passed) comparing that to 3 years is a huge difference.
What I'd like to know is, how many of those who have had the MMR jab go on to catch measles at a later date? Surely it can't protect them all?

ragged · 10/08/2010 19:25

Very few I imagine.
If each time the dose confers immunity to 90% (I don't know if that's definitive, but I have heard that stat cited often), that's 99% of the injected covered.
So after 1yo and preschool doses, 99% chance of immunity to be expected.
But with high herd immunity, relatively few of those who didn't get immunity (or who can't have the injections) will ever get it.

saintlydamemrsturnip · 10/08/2010 19:36

Single measles and mmr use the same vaccine strains.

Both are meant to confer lifelong immunity but waning immunity can be a problem for both (although I would expect them to last longer than 3 years).

The recent mumps outbreaks amongst people in their 20's are probably in part because of waning immunity. If you search you'll find the studies on mumps keep reducing the length of time immunity appears to last.

The states has (or always did) teen mmr booster.

Dept of health bod said years ago on a radio 4 phone in in response to a question from my friend that several boosters may be required as the vaccinated generation grew up. Never heard any more about that though.

UnholyMoley · 10/08/2010 19:38

I'm extremely suspicious of the lifelong immunity thing. As part of my job I summarise medical records, and I have been told by the doctors not to bother including childhood imms on the computerised records of adults over the age of 20. I have a training session on thursday, I shall ask the doc for the specific reasons for this.

saintlydamemrsturnip · 10/08/2010 19:56

Lifelong immunity is particularly hard to achieve when circulating disease is very limited. So if you have a measles vaccination and are then exposed to natural measles - providing the jab has worked you'll get a natural booster. Same will happen next time you meet the disease. But if the disease stops circulating (which measles practically has) you're unlikely to get those natural boosters. Meet it 20 or 30 years later and you may be unlucky.

onimolap · 10/08/2010 20:06

The single measles jab was licensed for general use on UK until 1997 (non-renewal of licence was one of New Labour's earliest acts). There were no concerns over its efficacy and parents on thosde days were told that it conferred lifelong immunity.

I am more concerned about the rubella part of this: single jab at 11-13 (in my day) was meant to confer around 20 year immunity - covering peal childbearing years. Unless they are using a different vaccine; this means our daughters will be losing immunity in their early 20s - and will this only be noticed when the diease re-emerges in this age group? UnholyMoley: can you also ask your doc about this?

Original poster
goingbacktowork · 10/08/2010 21:36

thanks all - well she is having the single measles tomorrow and we will just have to hope this conveys the lifelong immunity - if not maybe she will have another jab in her late teens.

If the jabs - whether singles or MMR don't give more then a few years immunity I wonder what the point of them is - are n't we just delaying the time when the recipients will catch these diseases?

OP posts:
ProfessorLaytonIsMyLoveSlave · 10/08/2010 21:40

I'd be sceptical of the three years claim, to be honest. When I was young we got single measles jabs (with no booster) and yet vaccinated children weren't dropping like flies when they got to school. In fact I don't know of a single person who got a single measles jab in the 70s who caught measles.

Original poster
goingbacktowork · 10/08/2010 21:43

I think there are lots of cases nowadays of kids with the measles vacs then catching measles - not that I am an expert - I am not

OP posts:
saintlydamemrsturnip · 10/08/2010 23:22

ProfLayton - more circulating measles then though so people would have been having natural boosters all the time - which helps the vaccination last (I had measles in the 70's and it didn't seem particularly unusual).

Tabitha8 · 11/08/2010 16:15

If a measles jab is meant to prevent a child catching measles, then I don't follow this "natural booster" point, unless it means that they are still able to catch measles. If so, they should then have lifelong immunity, surely?

thisisyesterday · 11/08/2010 16:20

i know that a lot of people on here are very sceptical of richard halvorsen but he makes this very point in the truth about vaccines

we used to have the MMR at 10/11 as we started secondary school
since it has been offered only at age 2 we have seen a reduction in the amount of people who are still immune in later life.

this is particularly worrying for women of childbearing age who are of course very vulnerable in particular to rubella.
this is why when you are pregnant they check your immunity to it

thisisyesterday · 11/08/2010 16:21

and yes, i believe a lot of the most recent cases of measles have been outbreaks in universities and things- mainly in young people who have had the mmr but whose immunity has waned

thumbwitch · 11/08/2010 16:36

I'm fairly sure that there have been reports in the not too distant past saying the the immnunity conferred by the MMR may only last about 10-12 years in some people - which is pretty worrying for boys in the case of mumps (as well as girls and rubella), since boys getting mumps in their teens and twenties is much more risky to their gonads than getting it when little.

There is no obvious immunological reason why the single measles jab should last any less time than the MMR measles component - that just sounds like propaganda to me. Beforehand, they said that the single measles jab wasn't as effective as MMR - why not? Again, no sound immunological reason. Propaganda, that's all.

In any case, I believe the "success" rate of the measles vaccine is between 80 and 90% at best - some people just won't respond to it (which is why they can still get measles after having had the vaccine)

Tabitha8 · 11/08/2010 17:05

Yet it is the clinic giving the jab that is saying it only lasts 3 years...

Original poster
goingbacktowork · 11/08/2010 17:13

"There is no obvious immunological reason why the single measles jab should last any less time than the MMR measles component - that just sounds like propaganda to me. Beforehand, they said that the single measles jab wasn't as effective as MMR - why not? Again, no sound immunological reason. Propaganda, that's all."

I am not sure anyone on here is saying it is less effective. I certainly don't think it is.

OP posts:
sorky · 11/08/2010 17:16

I waited until Dc3 was 3 before giving him his first imm's which happen to be the MMR because we can't source singles anywhere near us.
He's only had it as he starts Nursery in September.

Will do the same for dc4.

thumbwitch · 11/08/2010 17:18

I didn't say that anyone on here was saying that, goingbacktowork - I'm saying that it was said in the media, by GPs and various other Government agents who were pushing the MMR programme.

Original poster
goingbacktowork · 11/08/2010 17:32

really I never saw such comments. Would n't surprise me though - they will say anything to push the MMR.

OP posts:
Tabitha8 · 11/08/2010 17:40

Didn't the clinic giving the jab tell you that is only lasts three years, though, goingback?