FPTP doesn't work - time to reform it

[twodowntwotogo]

There's such a wild mismatch between % of the vote and the actual result - the most extreme ever. It makes for a 'cleaner' outcome but given the mutli-party system, isn't it time to move to proportional representation as more democratic? Thoughts? (I'm all for it but would be interested in hearing if anyone seriously champions FPTP).

The thing is, with PR, no one party will have an overall majority so you would have to have a coalition. And we know how well that worked in 2010, don't we?

Other countries have learnt how to do coalitions,surely our MPs could learn too.

Each election I am reminded of how undemocratic our democracy is.

We managed to do PR for EU elections.

And while we are on reform of the democratic system, I'd like to ban whips.

Just come up with Policies that are so great or sensible that the person on the Clapham omnibus would approve of them.

I want PR, but it is not going to happen this decade at least. AV would have been a step forward and would have kept the idea of one MP representing you, but even that was rejected.

Too many people see coalitions as a bad thing in this country.

I agree actually, vote share doesn't equal seats gained/lost.

If Labour have 35% vote share of 647 declared that would be 226 seats surely not 412 and reform would have 84 at 13% not 4 , etc etc ?

People are such bad losers. FPTP was fine if it gave the result they wanted.

I voted for Labour so I got the result I personally wanted.

But I always wanted PR and I still do. I want coalitions and I cannot fathom why this country is so scared of them. So many of the big issues facing us require more then 5 years to fix them - they require long term thinking and so require input from as many parties as possible.

So basically Labour's total number of votes is more or less the same as under Corbyn? Interesting.

Exactly and from what I have read Reformers moaning about it. Why haven’t any of them campaigned to change the electoral system?

Labour got 34% of the vote and 412 (!) seats.

Everyone hates the Tories and wanted to punish them but they still got 120 seats.

So many millions of people will not get their views represented and 40% of the electorate didn't even bother to turn out. Call it democracy if you like but it means nothing to me.

FPTP is insane. 4 years to change it.

https://makevotesmatter.org.uk/good-systems-agreement/

https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/what-is-proportional-representation/

FPTP gave me the result I wanted, I still think it is an undemocratic system.

And yet when we had a referendum to change to a AV system in 2011, it was overwhelmingly voted no.
42% turnout, with 67.9% people voting no. The yes vote lost in every single constituency.

It was the libdems who pushed for it as part of the coalition agreement and it was the right wing parties who were vociferously campaigning against the change. The libdems originally wanted PR but it was watered down by the Tories to AV

Funny that.

With PR, Reform would now have more seats than LD.

I got the result I wanted (don't have a vote, I'm an EU national) but I still want PR for the UK, even though that would have delivered a horde of Reform MPs. Ultimately it's about democracy and making people realise that every vote really does count. FPTP does not deliver that, and people need to reengage with politics.

Coalitions are about doing grown-up politics where there's compromise and where nobody gets exactly what they want. The UK needs to learn this.

This is why the UK needs a written constitution where things like this are regulated and cannot be changed so easily at the whim of whichever of the two parties happens to be in power.

that's because the UK doesn't know how to arrange a coalition properly.
In Germany, for eg, you get a few weeks of negotiations between the parties before the government is announced. It works well in most cases

As I've said on another thread, the arguments against PR always line up supposed the facts that (a) we'd have permanent coalitions, and no functional government, and simultaneously (b) that PR in Wales and Scotland has resulted in long term one party dominance.
Personally in Wales I think it works well - it's a left leaning country, but Labour have always had to work to a greater or lesser extent in co-operation with either Plaid Cymru or the Lib Dems. Obviously those on the right don't like it, but they'd be doing no better under a FPTP system, it'd still be pretty certainly a labour majority most of the time.

[edited to say supposed facts rather than just facts]

I takes weeks even months to put together a coalition deal...and a good thing too!

And a lot of voters would feel very much less disenfranchised. I don't like Reform, but I can't argue that those voters shouldn't be represented.

It was a very badly sold referendum on a system with no history in the UK. We have 25 years of functioning PR under the D'Hondt system in large parts of the country, it would have made far more sense to put forward that option. But of course the senior partner in the coalition really didn't want PR to succeed.

Up until last night I was all for PR

However, seeing the numbers voting for Reform I’m not sure it’s such a good idea at the moment

Exactly.

And if Nigel Farage starts whinging for a second referendum on it, he can fuck off and remember he doesn't agree with second referendums.

There's an argument that people would vote differently if we had FPTP so Reform might not have got as many votes anyway.

I live in what has traditionally been a very safe Tory seat (but we do have a Libdem MP now). So my vote has been wasted at every election until this year. If my vote counted, I could vote for anyone eg Volt UK (a pro European party) and know it counted towards seats in parliament.

I don't like the idea of Reform getting more seats (or indeed UKIP in 2015) but I think a form of PR would be better. Much less tribalism too - maybe people would vote quite differently in Northern Ireland, too.

I voted Lib Dem tactically and so did a lot of people I know and it worked, they gained. With PR labour would have had my vote, the vote share is not accurate with many people voting tactically.

@ohfourfoxache

but you can't change the way voting works simply because you would/wouldn't like the outcome. It's either a better/fairer way to vote or it isn't.

id like us to look at other option personally. I've lived with both FPTP & PR. They both have pros & cons. Neither of them are ideal.