Proportional Representation = Far Right???

[RobynRB]

I was listening to the radio the other day and they were talking about the upcoming election. In fact they were discussing tactical voting and someone said that if they introduced proportional representation then there wouldn't be any need for tactical voting.

I can understand the frustration of people who live in safe seats as I live in one myself. Even in 1997 we still had a Conservative MP and I'm sure probably always will. I'm not solidly for either party, but I do believe that voting for the same party blindly over and over again - while complaining that you don't like what they do is ridiculous. I also think that like in 1997 it's time for a change.

Anyway, someone on the radio addressed this call for proportional representation by saying that this is what they do in Europe and that's why they have the rise of far right political parties.

So. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what this person was actually saying is that really we don't want people to be able to vote for who they 'think' they want. What we really want is for them to only actually be able to vote for two fairly similar centrist parties who basically follow the script and give the 'illusion' of choice by allowing voters to vote for 'fringe' parties without any actual danger of them getting into power.

It's hardly surprising that the two main parties are so interchangeable (in the grand scheme of things) and that they don't really have any incentive to do anything truly 'different'. And it's hardly surprising that a lot of voters are apathetic about voting given the lack of choice on the table and the feeling that voting outside those two parties is just wasting your time.

So is it unreasonable of me to actually want my safe seat vote to count for something, or am I just a far right apologist who wants Nigel and his fascist cronies to get into No10.

I hate our two party system. Hate parliament. Cringe at PMQs. We’re completely disenfranchised. No wonder populist political movements are gaining support. People feel powerless.

Westminster and English councils are the last places with FPTP in the UK. If we were to design an elected body from scratch (as has been done in devolved areas), nobody would think FPTP was a good idea.

But yet here we are. In a cycle of reactive politics, where it’s in politicians interests to rubbish everything about their opponents and never for one moment reflect or refine own actions. Oppositional rather than collaborative. Imagine running a business like that?

I remember voting in a referrendum on changing from FPTP to STV in 2011. It was rejected by 67% of those who bothered to vote. All the arguments against FPTP were as valid then as now but I think it was very low turnout.

Thank you this is what I was trying to say.

Your vote still counts in fptp even if your favoured candidate doesn’t win, because the pressure of all the votes he/she didn’t get will influence his/her politics.

The only way that could be a bigger load of bollocks would be in a bigger font.

It depends on the method of PR being used. With STV it may not translate directly. It depends on how many candidates they run and in which constituencies. But yeah, it would be more closely correlated.

Also, we've seen how well supporting the conservatives has worked for the DUP. Although they do manage to shoot themselves in the foot quite regularly so it's hard to blame it on one factor only.

In both Scotland and Germany they use what is called an "additional member system". I described it above, but basically everybody gets two votes. One is for their local constituency and one is for the party that they want to govern.

The vote for the party that they want to govern is the more important one as that decides the final number of seats allocated to each party.

That was a vote on AV not STV. On the surface they look similar as both involve ranking candidates but STV is proportional and AV isn’t. AV is sometimes referred to as “instant run-off”. It has more in common with the French presidential elections or the Georgia run-offs than with any preportional system.

Yes, I know. I was just pointing out that there are multiple types of PR and what applies to one may not apply to another type.

Wow, that spectacularly illustrates just how biased the current system is doesn't it? Is it any wonder people lose faith when the votes are not represented properly.

Also makes you wonder why the Lib Dems were so keen on PR given they would have been beaten by UKIP.

Where is this faaaaar-right that everyone’s so afraid of? In my whole life I have never seen a far-right march or met anyone who identifies as far-right. However, I have met numerous left-wing/woke bullies. The left dominate everything. They run the universities, the arts, the BBC, even the libraries. They also seem to run publishing. Have you wandered around Waterstones? Every other book seems to be attacking British history or sneering at our national heroes. And as if that wasn’t enough, we’re about to elect a left-wing government led by a man who supported Jeremy Corbyn! Thanks to the left, the whole idea of both Englishness and Britishness are now toxic. They aren’t just winning, they’ve won. The ‘far-right’ have about as much influence as the flippin Mormons.

Is it any wonder people lose faith when the votes are not represented properly.

FPTP isn't so bad when there are only two really viable views on a topic. It fails spectacularly when faced with a myriad of "views".

However the increasingly tribal nature of mainstream politics is what highlights the unfairness. In days of olde, MPs actually tried to represent all their constituents. However the moment it dawned on them there were enough people who would always vote for them no matter what, they realised they could do fuck all and still get elected.

Where is this faaaaar-right that everyone’s so afraid of? In my whole life I have never seen a far-right march or met anyone who identifies as far-right.

I dare you to tell me I imagined NF marches in Southall in the 1970s. Complete with swastikas and flags.

I double dare you.