Starmer claims he wouldn't use private healthcare

[SadOhShea]

In the leader's debate Starmer claimed he wouldn't use private healthcare to help a loved one in a dire situation if they were on an NHS waiting list "and he felt like it was the only option".

Surely this is a lie, right? He's just saying what he thinks voters want to hear?

Wouldn't anyone who could afford it go private for a loved one in this situation? Also isn't it morally better to use private healthcare if you are very wealthy like he is and so you're not clogging up the NHS and taking the place of someone who genuinely doesn't have the option?

I just thought it seemed an insult to the intelligence of the voters to think he wouldn't use private healthcare for a loved one.

I won't use private, we had great private cover with my husband's work and I waited my turn on the NHS. If my child was dying I would forget my principles but I hope the NHS would be there for us in a life or death situation, that has been my experience with an EMCS and emergency admission to the cardiac unit.

I can believe other people feel the same.

I think that is very true. Many years ago one of my children needed surgery, he was to have two operations with a 12 month interval. The treatment on a medical level was excellent but the lack of understanding of a 2 year old needing his mum was terrible, back then many hospitals wouldn't have parents on the ward overnight. He was so disturbed by what happened I did consider going private just so I could be with him so I spoke to his Consultant. His reply was he wouldn't do it for his child so couldn't recommend it for mine. His reasoning? If something went wrong the private hospital would just get him transferred back to the NHS and the delay could be catastrophic.

This scared me. It suggested that restricting private healthcare or imposing penalties on those who choose to use it or taxing it may be on the cards.

Its fine for him. Frankly it’s unlikely that he or his immediate family wouldn’t get the best of treatment from the NHS. That isn’t the case for everyone.

For those who say they’d just wait for the NHS, be aware that, for example, in Scotland,that would mean that your child may be crippled (unnecessarily) for life because the NHS is so slow in carrying out scoliosis surgery ( recent press reports). In some cases people have gone blind with cataracts or other degenerative eye conditions because of NHS delays; likewise those waiting for hip or knee replacements can deteriorate to the point there’s no sensible surgical option remaining. These things are happening regularly.

I feel no guilt whatsoever about using medical services abroad or private here. I think more should be spent on medical services here and vote accordingly- but, the huge issues with the NHS won’t be solved by more money alone. It needs root and branch reform. Other countries in Europe have far superior but still universal systems.

It was a difficult question for him to answer

often KS is very straight with his answers his doesn’t do political patter he could have answered it in another way but that
would have been wrong to

I don’t believe for one minute if he was in a desperate situation and the option was to go private or wait he would make his family wait

the issue is they shouldn’t have to wait

I'm so sorry, it was actually quite funny when he said this I could not keep a straight face. At best he is doing his sentimental, save-our-NHS, we're-all-in-this-together, Thursday-evening-hands-clapping hero, at worst - a dogmatic ideologue who'd allow loved ones suffer for his unrealistic convictions.

I worked in the NHS and left as the private sector had better working conditions and I needed to afford the healthcare for my family.

This is an interesting point. One could argue that the choice of not using private insurance when it is a possible option is a privilege and should be treated as such. With little resources (as currently in the public sector), healthcare will need to be focused on those most needing it - which means that others with less severe conditions will either have to pay or go without.

As far as I was concerned my husband having cover he never asked for was nothing to do with me.

I don't agree with private healthcare as those with the means jump the queue and private hospitals have none of the expense of training doctors/nurses/physios etc and I would be more sympathetic if they paid the NHS when they recruit staff trained at public expense. I particularly dislike people paying to see a specialist and then getting put on the NHS waiting list ahead of people who are waiting to see that same specialist, I think they should wait the same time as people who were referred at the same time as them.

'As far as I was concerned my husband having cover he never asked for was nothing to do with me.'

I can understand this - my point was however that a lot of people will not have this choice to refuse healthcare that they may need/benefit from (regardless of whether they asked for it or not) to wait for the NHS treatment because it feels like the right thing to do. They do not have a choice but wait, and more people being added to the list extends this wait further.

I particularly dislike people paying to see a specialist and then getting put on the NHS waiting list ahead of people who are waiting to see that same specialist, I think they should wait the same time as people who were referred at the same time as them.

The private hospital has different NHS waiting lists. You don't jump the queue at the NHS hospital they also work at. You go through Choose and Book and select the private hospital.

You can choose private hospital treatment the same way from the get go on the NHS with Choose and Book, and will likely be seen / treated more quickly than if you go via the NHS hospital (where the same consultant will also work).

Labour is proposing more of what I describe above to get through waiting lists more quickly, so clearly aren't opposed to it happening.

Not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about Mrs X and Mrs Y needing to see a consultant, Mrs X sees him privately within the month and Mrs Y waits six months. When Mrs X sees the consultant she is told she needs an operation and she says she will need that on the NHS as she can't afford it. Consultant puts her on the waiting list for NHS surgery and she gets her op in 12 months. Mrs Y waits the six months for her consultation and also needs the same op, she goes on the waiting list six months behind Mrs X.

I've known it happen.

He's a liar. If one of his children was on a long waiting list but he put his principles before his child and let them suffer then I would have no respect for him.

If people with money couldn't jump the queue the people in power would make sure the waiting lists were shorter.

Yes, but Mrs Y probably had a private hospital option on the NHS which she could have chosen, which would've been the same speed as Mrs X.

I was Mrs X, and feel no guilt (I bumped nobody down the list, because of the different hospitals having different lists).

One of the reasons it is good to have private is they actually look into root causes with thorough diagnostics, which ultimately saves NHS.

I was an NHS nurse and other members of my family have worked in the NHS . In 2016 , I was seriously ill for about 6 months , getting progressively worse and eventually getting blue lighted into A&E with a blood pressure of 45/ . I was basically revived , filled with fluid over a few days and the sent home unable to stand up for more than a few seconds . I’d always believed in ‘ if you are sick enough the NHS would help you ‘ , they didn’t and I went private and even my then GP agreed that that was what saved my life . I don’t believe that anybody who has the means would choose to die waiting for the NHS to actually do something rather than go private and survive .

Again that isn't what I'm talking about. I know you don't want to accept people jump the queue but they do. You were a NHS patient using a legitimate route. If your only option was a six month wait to see the Consultant and then a 12 month wait for surgery would you be happy if I could pay £200 and skip the six month queue? Where we go as an NHS patient after that is irrelevant.

If he was PM he really wouldn’t be waiting at 0830 to try and get an appointment and keep having to redial because they are busy or have to take time off to take a child to GP and wait in the communal waiting room because GP is running over.

He wouldn’t be told to wait for all tests to come back and oops - we have lost one of the tests and could you come in again.

He would be rushed through. The top specialists would be available. Of course he would have no need to use the private system!

Are you criticising all the other parents of kids at grammar schools, who could theoretically afford private?

He's not a hypocrite, thank goodness.

Yes actually. It's a system that creates the poorest outcomes for those who don't get in. Huge divides in areas because some rich kids can get tutored.

It’s wrong to say people who could pay take the place of those who can’t because it’s a system for all regardless of income. This is why I think that the royals should use public services such as schools and healthcare.

When our health and education systems are so stretched buildings are crumbling, kids are not going into school and people are dying in A&E, I would think a kind person would take themselves out of putting more pressure on that system if they could easily afford it.

You think people choose private schools/health care for their kids because they are kind?

It's very easy to be principled and say you'd never use private healthcare when you don't have an urgent medical need that the NHS cannot help you with.

In the last 5 months my DS has developed a sudden and severe case of kyphosis, and he has gone from standing upright to being permanently hunched over a at a 45 degree angle - and you can see it's getting visibly worse week on week.

He is in constant pain. The degree of curvature is such that if it gets much worse, it will damage his spinal cord, causing irreversible damage.

But on the NHS we would be waiting 12 months for an appointment, and then another 12 months for surgery. Given the change in his spine in just the last 5 months, I dread to think what he would be like after 24.

So damn right we are going private (thank goodness for medical insurance) and quite honestly I would think very badly of anyone in the same situation, who had the opportunity to go private but instead left their child to become permanently disabled.

I'm afraid that imho, Sir Keir saying he would never use private healthcare reflects very badly on him.

I think that if someone can admit they can pay for something to allow others to get it free that is not a bad thing. More thoughtful that just taking it because they can.

If the system assessed wealth then those who could afford would have to pay but the system doesn’t look at wealth. The nhs and schools don’t have a form to fill that looks at your bank account cash, savings, investments, do you own a house etc and that uses this information to come up with a payment system. Tax does this through earnings already but then paying extra because of owning a house etc would make the system completely different.