The Tories now want to cut NHS management to afford to build more GP practices

[Ouch3522774]

Where are the doctors going to come from? Who is going to run the surgeries? I've seen it said many times that for the size of the NHS it's woefully UNDER managed and UNDER administrated. So who is going to provide those services if they cut the management tier?

Ouch indeed. I'm sure they could find some money through losing a few managers but where indeed are they going to find these doctors?

One they have the doctors though they'll have to get the doctors themselves to do their own admin / business management (good luck with that!) 80% of the consultants I work with can't tell one end of a computer from the other.

Which NHS management are they wanting to cut? Because if it's the General Manager for my service, they're going to have to get someone clinical in to handle the funding applications, the disciplinaries, the operational supervisions, the recruitment of senior staff, the governance... That would eat up a whole senior clinician.

They will be filled with PAs etc. Probably only one GP actually in them!

Labour are talking about bringing back the pensions cap for doctors to pay for an extra appointments at GP’s and the BMA is saying that a bunch of them are making noise about retiring. It honestly feels like neither party has much of a plan on this.

I think we perhaps need to have a more honest genuinely non partisan conversation about how to pay for the NHS.

I agree. I feel health and social care - because to my mind they're inseparable - needs to be taken out of party politics entirely.

Oh look a election they're going re-invent the NHS .

I dont know anything about the policy, but there are loads of out if work GPs there was a petition about this recently - they have been replaced by PAs

Indeed!!
Labour also stated the won't be paying the docs anything like the 35%

We do need an overhaul of the NHS, but just increasing pay for those that strike is not the way forward.

The Tories, they've been around long enough to have sorted out the NHS. Having said that, Covid has caused a massive problem along with strikes by NHS staff over the last 12 months or so

If there was a simple solution, then it would have materialised.
Sadly, no one has the answer

I fear an additional payment to use NHS levlied at a few million, ie via earnings based then these earnings wont increase in line with inflation and in 20 years everyone earing even below the average wage will end up paying other than those that don't work and hopefully children. Is an idea that those that support Labour or Tories will be emailing their MP's about because as things stand, it can only get worse, no matter who slips in via the back door with a coalition partner.

Excatly that - Even Labour, has been in opposition for around 15 years, but nothing was stopping them in the previous GE's from coming up with something that at least sounded plausible,

We don’t need more GP practices - but for the existing ones to be able to afford GPs!
There’s increasing numbers of GPs unable to find work, thousands more qualifying in August many with no jobs to go to - and practices being given money they’re only allowed to spend on PAs etc. It’s like some grim social experiment - train more GPs but practices can’t afford to employ them, the whole country is struggling to get a GP appointment.

And that is a policy choice from a government trying to do healthcare on the cheap. We already spend less on healthcare per head of population than pretty much every comparable Western nation.

Fascinating that the Tories have magically worked out how to fix things after 14 years in power...

Good point re working on the current practices

We have a senior chemist taking surgeries at our surgery along with docs
When calling to make an appt - the receptionist will request the reason for the appt. If you tell them and it sound relatively straightforward, you will be offered an appt with a snr chemist or nurse. The chemist or nurse will consult a GP if they need to - it works well

Then in our surgery, a chemist will call with a pre-arrange appt for a medicines review and or assess you for a medicine that was prescribed by GP but you feel better with it and want it on a repeat prescription

I'm an ex troy, we a tory until Sunak decide re GE - they are like any other political party, talk a load of.......

Who's going to staff these surgeries? We have another GP going next month, a practice nurse in two months (leaving me on 20 hours per week for nearly 10,000 patients) and four other experienced HCP in their early fifties going in two to three years, myself included.
Nobody wants overtime or extra hours. Struggle to recruit.

There’s been a mention of an exemption to the pensions cap for clinicians. The NHS is already under managed.

Whos going to staff these new ideas/surgieris - I gues the gov will tell us soon

Deos anyone know what labour is saying to get votes re what they will do to the BHS re shortages and pay? Then ask them why they did not do that when they were in office last time about 15 yrs ago

They have the doctors already! Some recent GP vacancies have attracted 40 candidates to one position.

what they will do to the BHS

British Home Stores closed years ago.

It's a shame that. They did great lighting and towels.

They could fire the guys in charge of lanyards. That would not affect actual care. Then there's the Stonewall liaison people who must ensure men are properly placed in women's wards. Those who check that everyone has the right pronouns in their emails etc.

The team currently working their way through all the documentation replacing "woman' with not-man or cervix owner could go find real jobs.

The guys who run the re-education classes could be let go.

As far as possible the people working for the NHS should be there to treat people who are sick.

Deos anyone know what labour is saying to get votes re what they will do to the BHS re shortages and pay? Then ask them why they did not do that when they were in office last time about 15 yrs ago.

Here are details of Labour's plans for the NHS https://labour.org.uk/missions/nhs/

The last time Labour were in power they reduced inpatient waiting lists by 500,000 people.
Employed 85,000 more nurses and 32,000 more doctors.
Set up NHS Direct.
Introduced free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.
Reduced heart disease deaths by 150,000 and cancer deaths by 50,000.

Does anyone know what the Conservatives are saying to get votes re what they will do to the NHS re shortages and pay? Then ask them why they have not done that whilst they have been in office for the last 15 yrs ago.

Firstly, lack of management staff is damaging NHS performance. Managers and senior managers make up only 3%% of NHS staff, compared to 11%% of the overall workforce. Since 2009, the number of NHS FTE managers has only increased by 4%%, despite a 9% increasee in the overall population (and a 27% increase in the 65+ population), leading to an inevitable increase in demand for NHS services. Without sufficient managerss_, hospitals are less efficient and clinical staff have to spend more time on managerial and administrative tasks and less time on patient-facing care.

www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/blogs/staff-shortages-behind-headlines

	The <a class="break-all" href="https://www.ippr.org/research/publications/finding-hope" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">NHS is under managed compared to</a>international health systems and compared to other parts of the UK workforce.
	NHS managers make up <a class="break-all" href="https://eprints.whiterose.ac.uk/110128/1/OS%20Corporatisation%20and%20management.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">circa 2 per cent of the workforce</a> compared to 9.5 cent of the UK workforce in 2017 (at 3 per cent in 2023) .

	The UK <a class="break-all" href="https://nursingnotes.co.uk/news/hire-more-and-better-nhs-managers-to-free-up-nurses-report-recommends/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">spends less on management compared to comparable</a> international health systems &ndash; it spends 2p in the pound on healthcare administration, compared to 5p in Germany and 6p in France.

www.nhsconfed.org/articles/are-there-too-many-nhs-managers