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General election 2024

The effect of VAT on private school fees.

155 replies

HeadDeskHeadDesk · 30/05/2024 15:15

If this is brought in, and it seems likely it will be, I've been thinking a lot about how it's going to shape things in future.

Personally I think it's outrageous to introduce it from day 1 and it should only be introduced immediately for new pupils who are not already in (or signed up to be in) the private system.

Parents should have at least 1 academic year of notice that VAT will be levied on their fees, as their child moves up through each stage of their education, between infants, juniors, year 7 or sixth form. Or in the case of public schools it would be moving from Prep to common entrance.

You should be exempt from paying VAT until your child reaches the end of whatever stage they are at, as it's a natural break with the opportunity to move into the state system with less trauma and disruption to the child. At least that way, you'd have fair warning and plenty of time to make alternative arrangements. People with kids in private junior school will be pushing really hard to get them through the 11+ and hopefully into a super-selective state grammar school, but plenty already do that anyway and only keep their children in private school from year 7 onwards if they are unsuccessful at 11+.

The disruption to children will be terrible if they get pulled out mid-key stage or halfway through the two year GCSE programme, or whatever. Getting a state school place anywhere within sensible distance of home, let alone a good state school place is going to be hugely problematic.

Obviously it goes without saying that very good or outstanding state schools will already be heavily oversubscribed. I can see private school parents pushing up property prices around outstanding state schools (or decent Community Schools where they are obliged to take you at any stage so long as you live in catchment) even more than they already are, or renting out their main home and moving into catchment of those decent state schools in order to secure a place.

Either way, there is no doubt it's going to be carnage.

I'm thinking that as Home Education or Home Schooling is already a burgeoning thing, lots will go that way. But most people who were previously in the position of being able to pay school fees probably don't fit the typical profile of most home educators. The private school parents are most likely people running their own businesses or earning high salaries in professional or corporate jobs that require their full attention, so they are probably not in a position to undertake the home schooling themselves.

I see these parents potentially banding together to create Home Ed co-operatives where they sign their children up to online learning schemes, then collectively employ freelance teachers as private tutors, rent workspaces and meeting rooms etc.

So their 'home schooled' children now learn with with maybe 10 or 20 other children, five days a week, dipping in and out of different sessions according to age and subject and which teachers are available that session, to oversee and supplement the online learning.

It wouldn't take that much to organise and it would be far cheaper than private school if enough families grouped together to fund it.

OP posts:
titchy · 30/05/2024 15:18

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HeadDeskHeadDesk · 30/05/2024 15:22

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I genuinely haven't seen one. I guess there are plenty of threads on the VAT but I have no idea whether any of them mention the idea of a parent co-op thing.

What has this got to do with being a Tory bot?

Do you not agree that it's going to be problematic in terms of finding school places for these children and do you not agree that some parents will move heaven and earth to find an alternative to a terrible school place that is only available because nobody else wants it?

I don't think you have to be a Tory to anticipate either of those things.

OP posts:
EasilyDefined · 30/05/2024 15:27

I don't think it would be easy to organise AT ALL. The safeguarding and liability aspects of it all would be enormous. I don't see how it would be cheaper either if I'm honest. You are basically talking about setting up new private schools.

HeadDeskHeadDesk · 30/05/2024 15:34

EasilyDefined · 30/05/2024 15:27

I don't think it would be easy to organise AT ALL. The safeguarding and liability aspects of it all would be enormous. I don't see how it would be cheaper either if I'm honest. You are basically talking about setting up new private schools.

Would it? When I used a private tutor for my child I either took them to her house or she came to ours. I didn't stay there when my child was inside, I picked them up later. It would probably require some parental attendance on some sort of rota basis, but I don't see why it needs to be anything very formalised, otherwise it just becomes a small private school, which would defeat the object.

OP posts:
blacksax · 30/05/2024 15:36

Like there haven't been umpteen threads about this already.

UneTasse · 30/05/2024 15:38

While I have skin in the game here and am very worried about this, there have been a LOT of threads on this in the last few days @HeadDeskHeadDesk. It might also be more appropriate to post this on one of the education boards.

HeadDeskHeadDesk · 30/05/2024 15:53

UneTasse · 30/05/2024 15:38

While I have skin in the game here and am very worried about this, there have been a LOT of threads on this in the last few days @HeadDeskHeadDesk. It might also be more appropriate to post this on one of the education boards.

OK fait enough but I will look at some of the others to see if people have mentioned plans along these lines.

OP posts:
Serencwtch · 30/05/2024 18:36

The VAT should be imposed as soon as reasonably possible and definitely by the start of the 2025 academic year for all pupils.

It's up to individual schools how much of it they want to pass on to parents and how much they want to absorb through cuts elsewhere.

State schools have had to cope with cuts after cuts to school budgets & have had to reduce staff numbers, equipment etc so private schools could do the same & absorb the VAT themselves if they choose to.

Simonjt · 30/05/2024 18:39

Surely the parents shoudl just sell their flat screen tvs, smart phones, buy fewer latte’s and takeaway, then of course downsize and swap their expensive car for a cheap older one. Or is that advice only acceptable for those on a low income.

norfolkbroadd · 30/05/2024 18:45

Where have you been the last ten days OP? This place has been literally VAT fee posts from dawn to dusk.

Morph22010 · 30/05/2024 18:47

Tutors will need to start charging vat as well as education will become vat able. This will only be if their annual turnover is over the vat limit though. Also tutors charge more if you are wanting them to tutor a small group of children as opposed to a one to one session with one child. I know someone who currently pays for tutors for their child 10 hours a week in small groups (child is out of mainstream education due to sen (not a learning difficulty) but hasn’t yet got an ehcp) and it costs her £1000 a month which will increase by 20% when vat is added. That’s before you’ve paid for any extra stuff they do at school like sports or craft activities. Unless you are going to tutor them yourself it’ll prob be cheaper overall keeping them in private school unless you want a vastly inferior all round education

SwingingVoter · 30/05/2024 18:54

Are there enough private schools to make a difference with that money garnered??

HeadDeskHeadDesk · 31/05/2024 10:36

Morph22010 · 30/05/2024 18:47

Tutors will need to start charging vat as well as education will become vat able. This will only be if their annual turnover is over the vat limit though. Also tutors charge more if you are wanting them to tutor a small group of children as opposed to a one to one session with one child. I know someone who currently pays for tutors for their child 10 hours a week in small groups (child is out of mainstream education due to sen (not a learning difficulty) but hasn’t yet got an ehcp) and it costs her £1000 a month which will increase by 20% when vat is added. That’s before you’ve paid for any extra stuff they do at school like sports or craft activities. Unless you are going to tutor them yourself it’ll prob be cheaper overall keeping them in private school unless you want a vastly inferior all round education

But that's one on one. A tutor or freelance teacher can charge much more per hour for a larger group, but it still would work out much cheaper per child for the parent.

OP posts:
Brooks11 · 31/05/2024 10:37

Do you think this rule should also apply to schools putting fees up themselves?

AiryFairy101 · 31/05/2024 10:41

I learned last night Keir Stamer was educated privately….this says it all!!!

Simonjt · 31/05/2024 11:19

AiryFairy101 · 31/05/2024 10:41

I learned last night Keir Stamer was educated privately….this says it all!!!

He went to a state grammar, that school then started charging new students, existing students remained state funded until their compulsory education ended, this happened at the majority of grammar schools that stopped being state funded. So no, he wasn’t privately educated.

Grumpyoldpersonwithcats · 31/05/2024 11:21

@mnhq
Could we have a topic for the 20,000 threads on this subject please?

DarkForces · 31/05/2024 11:23

Grumpyoldpersonwithcats · 31/05/2024 11:21

@mnhq
Could we have a topic for the 20,000 threads on this subject please?

We could have a special 'Outraged' section for private schools and 'Fumming' for state?

crumblingschools · 31/05/2024 11:24

@Serencwtch so instead of trying to raise funding, standards, staff retention in state schools we should be bringing private schools down to the horrendous level that state schools are in.

crumblingschools · 31/05/2024 11:25

@Simonjt so maybe Keir Starmer could do the same for private schools and only bring in this policy for new pupils not existing ones

TheShellBeach · 31/05/2024 11:27

Grumpyoldpersonwithcats · 31/05/2024 11:21

@mnhq
Could we have a topic for the 20,000 threads on this subject please?

🤣🤣🤣

CassandraWebb · 31/05/2024 11:27

I doubt that many people are silly enough to send their children private if their finances are on that much of a knife edge, for most it will mean a bit of belt tightening at worst

TheShellBeach · 31/05/2024 11:29

CassandraWebb · 31/05/2024 11:27

I doubt that many people are silly enough to send their children private if their finances are on that much of a knife edge, for most it will mean a bit of belt tightening at worst

I know, it's tragic for them.

You'd think the state would provide free education for all the children whose parents can't afford to pay.

Oh wait...

AiryFairy101 · 31/05/2024 11:32

Simonjt · 31/05/2024 11:19

He went to a state grammar, that school then started charging new students, existing students remained state funded until their compulsory education ended, this happened at the majority of grammar schools that stopped being state funded. So no, he wasn’t privately educated.

I don’t agree this happened in a lot of grammars for one minute. The point is, he had a privileged education, yet there are thousands of parents busting their guts to give that to their children and he is denying them that privilege that he was afforded. Shame on him. No I will not be voting for him.

crumblingschools · 31/05/2024 11:43

Starmer got a bursary to stay on at the sixth form of his school