How can any woman think the Tories will protect them...

[TooBigForMyBoots]

...when they won't even protect the women who work for them?

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/05/rape-claims-against-tory-mp-were-not-covered-up-says-deputy-pm

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mps-sex-offence-arrest-parliament-commons-b1157500.html

But Keir Starmer...

But Angela Rayner. And Labour have been mean to Rosie Duffield.

But ‘they know what a woman is’. Don’t forget that.

Wonder who thinks of these phrases first and whether they should consider royalty charges each time someone posts it. They’d be rich.

I agree OP.

They protected Michelle Mone 👍

Torys only tend to protect themselves and their rich friends. Everything is worse in this country after 14 years. Cant wait to wave them goodbye.

It's not either or. I don't think the Tories or Labour will protect women. The fact that there is evidence the Tories won't does not magically mean that Labour will.

I am heartened at the cross party success of the vote, including 8 Tory MPs but find it odd that nearly all those who voted against came party some on MNet claim will protect women. I do get your concern though @AllProperTeaIsTheft. It's a choice between definite shit sandwich for women under the Tories and might be shit sandwich under a different government.

I'd go for the might be. Like who wants a definite shit sandwich? Feminists are used to fighting with governments. Its what we do.

Read this: archive.today/1YofY

John Healey, Labour, saying that women are protected enough under the Equality Act and that Labour won't revisit it. Where as the Tories have said they will/

You've got it wrong @TooBigForMyBoots it's a definite shit sandwich for women's rights under a Labour government.

You assume the revisiting will result in changes you agree with. I wouldn't be so sanguine.

Couldn't agree more. The Tories have been terrible for women

He is correct. The Equality Act protects for sex and gender reassignment. Looking at the rules of statutory interpretation, as gender reassignment is a separate protected characteristc ( not gender identity) then sex means biological sex. The problems have been caused partly by the gender recognition act and mainly because Stonewall/Mermaids etc have been falsely representing the law and public bodies and businesses have been falling over themselves to demonstrate how inclusive they are, so took this into policy. It is already law. It needs to be more rigorously applied.

It will probably get more polarised.

Because if you elect a government then obviously that governments policies are what the electorate want - and therefore they are justified implementing.

The question is not where Labour are now. It is where they will be re these sorts of policies 5 years after the electorate has given them a green light.

If they or any party cared about women they would enforce the payment of Child Support from absent fathers in a similar way that they do in the US
They have been only too happy to emulate the US in other ways

It matters little what the definition of a woman is for the purposes of accessing a domestic violence shelter if you don’t have domestic violence shelters because funding has been cut by the government. You can have the most biologically based definition of a woman but they still won’t be able to access the closed down shelter.

if the police are under funded and can’t respond to call outs for domestic violence, and the prisons are over crowded and can’t house the perpetrators, then it matters little to who would be in the shelter if the victim could escape the perpetrator.

Would I prefer a hospital ward that only allowed natal women to be there with me but could not afford to treat me, or one with good facilities and staff paid enough to motivate them, but a more expansive definition of woman?

Would I prefer a school that taught no sex education to my daughters and the boys they will grow up with, for fear gender ideology may be covered, or a school that gave them lots of info to protect them in this modern world while I teach them at home how to think about gender?

I know my answers. There are more important issues of government policy for women than just the definition of woman.

Your link doesn't work.

It did yesterday. Try this one: it works now, just tried it in Safari and Google.

<a class="break-all" href="http://archive.today/2024.06.03-092243/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/03/labour-refuses-back-tory-pledge-protect-single-sex-spaces" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://archive.today/2024.06.03-092243/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/03/labour-refuses-back-tory-pledge-protect-single-sex-spaces/

And now I've posted it here, 20 seconds after opening it on two browsers, I'm getting 404. Don't know what's going on. The article is still available in the Telegraph.

This has just worked for me in Safari on my laptop:
http://archive.today/1YofY

I see what you're doing there — setting up loads of strawmen. No one is proposing a choice between no sex education at all or gender ideology incorporated into sex education in schools. No one with any sense is anticipating a wonderfully efficient NHS with all staff paid generously.

Just say it — you're in full support of self-identifying men going wherever they want — and have done with it.

This bunch of clowns have totally destroyed the country. Nobody in their right mind, regardless of age, sex o race, would vote for these muppets.

I am prepared to remove from my social circle any person who openly admits voting for this lot in the next GE. I don't have a need to be associated with fucking dimwits.

Not at all. I am actually quite gender critical. It’s just that isn’t my priority in this election. there ain’t a party that encapsulates all the policies I think women need in place. I work in the NHS, I’ve seen what has happened to resourcing in the health service. I have no dream that it will be wonderful but what we had at the end of the last Labour gov was wonderful compared to now. That’s my priority.

And also the Tories are curbing sex Ed in primary schools beyond just gender ideology so that’s not a straw man.

I'm in Wales. 25 years of unbroken Labour rule. More money per capita available here than in most other areas of the UK. The Welsh government has total control over the NHS, education, the roads, agriculture — all the important sectors. They can spend the money how and where they like. On that basis you'd assume that Wales is a socialist paradise, wouldn't you?

It's not. Welsh education and health outcomes are the lowest in the UK. The NHS is a shambles. There's a higher proportion of people on benefits here than in any other region of the UK. Life expectancy is lower than in England. No one, looking at the situation objectively, could possibly argue that 25 years of Labour government has been a success.

Not at all. I am actually quite gender critical.

Then why not argue honestly? It's perfectly possible to have sex education without mention of gender or transition, for example. That was what was taught for decades.

Your use of the word 'protect' is telling.

The Tories don't 'protect' women - they are a small state party that expects adults to support themselves. Women's and children's services have collapsed under their austerity policies. However what they are likely to do is guarantee sex-based rights, which women can enforce via their own means (private income, crowdfunding, etc).

Labour MIGHT 'protect' women with some childcare and sexual violence policies and funding of some services (though they have not guaranteed this in their manifesto and are sticking to Tory welfare policies and 2 child cap which is the main cause of child poverty in the UK). But they won't guarantee that woman means 'woman'. So you MIGHT (heavily caveated) get more domestic violence funding and breastfeeding support but you MIGHT get men coming along to them as well.

Basically as Victoria Smith kind of said, right wing misogyny and 'left wing' misogyny take different forms - but they are still basically misogyny.

Will I vote for someone who will protect my rights as long as I can pay a lawyer to enforce them? Or will I vote for someone who will fund some of my services as long as I don't mind a man wanking off in the next toilet cubicle.

What a time to be alive.

And we can all drum up a rapist or several from any political party. Labour has its fair share of sexual predators - though Lib Dems and Greens are probably the market leaders.

They are clowns and I don't know how anyone could vote for them but I feel the same about Labour. My natural home LD are so far up their own arses that I can't vote for them either. I don't have anyone I can put my faith in.