Long-standing Conservative voters thread

[Katypp]

Any one else who has - up to this point at least - been a Tory voter?
I have voted Conservative at every national election (I am late 50s). This one is probably the most likely to change. Purely because I think new blood would be a good idea. I live in a very Labour area and have never shared my colours with anyone from being in my early 20s.
Given the fact that the Tories usually win, I suspect there are a lot like me.
I know it's a big ask, but I hope thar this might be a sensible thread for other natural Tory voters to discuss the election and not be called names and shouted down like we are on every other thread.
If you are a Labour voter, please don't hijack the thread and tell us how wrong we are. There is free speech in the UK and we are just as entitled to hold our opinion as you are to hold yours.

There's some daft mythology about Thatcher - in fact I'd have said Hezza was much more of a conviction politician. Most of the time, Thatcher's "beliefs" extended precisely as far as the thing with the most votes - and in her early years at least, she did U turn on issues she thought would be a problem for her.

I'm not a conservative and have voted labour all of my life but do find this thread interesting

I was just wondering what those who like Sunak think if they saw him on the 'debate' the other day. Does the fact we now know he lied that official independent civil servants had assessed Labour's tax plans when it was actually Tory special advisors make you feel any differently about him?

Exactly this. But the reason they won’t compensate anybody is because they would have to admit that LOCKDOWNS CAUSED MASSIVE HARMS, as was bloody obvious from the very beginning. And yes, I shall keep screaming this out loud until the serving prime minister admits this.

Lockdowns did cause massive harms, but the government were under HUGE pressure to put us in lockdown. Boris Johnson wanted to ride it out, like Sweden did, but there was uproar from his scientific advisors, from MPs of all parties, from the press and the public, and also the pressure of governments in other countries doing so. I remember a post on MN in March 2020 asking 'When are they going to lock us down?' and there were parents at my DC's schools who were pulling their kids out and keeping them at home in the weeks before schools were closed.

Labour would've gone much further, the SNP did go much further, there was a lot of pressure for even more draconian rules than we had. Remember, we were the first western country to relax the rules and open our borders. The whole thing was a shit show IMO, but whatever line the govt took it would've been too harsh for some, too lenient for others, too generous with benefits for some and too harsh for others. They'd never have pleased everyone.

My point was the lack of fairness and consistency as to who got support and who didn't, and that Sunak lied about his exclusions, even in Parliament.

I’m flabbergasted by the poster here who thinks that the Conservatives have moved too far left!!!!

Exactly this. I am tired of decisions taken under pressure at the time being judged with the benefit of hindsight.

Did you think this at the time or dis you think the PM should have had a crystal ball?
As a pp has said, the public and experts were demanding a lockdown and there would have been outrage if there wasn't one.
To expect the PM to ignore his advisers and public pressure and risk not locking down is ridiculous.
It's not fair to judge with the benefit of hindsight imo

@ladybirdsanchez Sweden didn't 'ride it out' - they absolutely did have restrictions in place. They were less stringent than ours, but they certainly didn't have a 'let the bodies pile high' approach. There were limits on gatherings, secondary schools were closed during the first two waves (though primaries stayed open), and the impact on health services was pretty devastating. Certainly there are things to be learned from their approach, but nobody should think it was a total free for all.

Personally I think lockdown 1 was necessary simply because we did not know what we were dealing with. We should have locked down earlier and then it would likely have lasted less long. Lockdown 2 - that's where we could and should have learned from the Swedish model, but we would have had to accept the total overwhelming of the NHS to the point where it was only dealing with COVID and nothing else, especially since at that point our health service had spent 10 years being run down.

Exactly this.

people with selective memories should read over the hysterical MN threads at the time where people were washing their shopping and screaming “murderer” at anyone who admitted to not wearing a mask.

Ive always voted conservative as i hold a lot of conservative views with regard to policies which is odd as I've been public sector my whole working life - i dare not say who i vote for at work.

The rot set in for me was with the whole covid scandal. I was on the front line risking death every working day, sticking to all the rules, living a different life to DH living in the spare room because he refused to move out to keep him safe, making a decontamination room and sadly losing colleagues and friends whilst the govt were all partying, breaking the rules and handing out backhand deals to their mates with no fucks to give. Unless you worked in it you have no idea how terrifying and emotionally horrific it was and to see what they were all doing was a literal punch in the gut.

Things have been getting worse and they have lost all credibility. Lies and fake promises, a mini budget that tanked the economy, in fighting and back stabbing, (unpopular on MN so trigger warning) erosion of LGBT rights, the smarmy grinning prick of a prime minister who has a permanent smirk on him.

The rich have just got so much richer whilst the rest of us suffer. Policies are being aimed at the older people to make them vote conservative. I bet the national service thing is popular with those who didn't have to do it or have grown up kids and the pension promises. My gran has so much money living in her house mortgage free, she doesn't need any more and don't get me started on the forcing people to work. Ive seen what mental health can do to people and teach self harm and suicide so understand mental health very well and what it can do to people and their ability to work. Yes there are people who buck the system, there always will be but hitting a nail with a battering ram isn't the approach.

I cant in good conscience vote for conservative. Im not sure labour will be much better but they are my only realistic option to get this party who is now unrecognisable to what it was 13 years ago out

I suspect you’re very far from alone @fromtheshires.

The rich have just got so much richer whilst the rest of us suffer.
This, fundamentally, has been the biggest problem for the Tories.

It happened over the last couple of generations. Middle class people would generally vote Tory, in the belief it would be better for their household’s finances. That isn’t how things have panned out, though. The middle class has shrunk and become poorer (and, as a result, have shifted left), while the very rich have become unbelievably wealthy.

With a dwindling middle class that’s come to realize that they have not benefited from Conservative policies, the Tories have instead gone all in on the working class vote. Obviously they can’t do that on fiscal grounds so all we get now is culture wars and grievance politics.

People just want abit of competence. No idea what these culture wars are they've "fought". They were very close to bringing in self ID and brought in gay marriage. They have had no policies for social conservatives who lean left financially like me (and possibly the majority).

I've always been a swing voter, but the destruction that's been brought on the country and the harm done to so many people by the last 14 years of mismanagement means I don't want the conservatives near power for a very long time.

This time it's anyone but conservatives for me.

@Northernnature I don't think there is a political party in the UK that fits someone who leans left fiscally but right socially.

Yeah I don’t think there has ever been one. Even internationally, when there’s a party that’s left in some respects and right wing in others, it’s usually fiscally right and socially left (like Trudeau’s lot).

Sweden didn't 'ride it out' - they absolutely did have restrictions in place. They were less stringent than ours, but they certainly didn't have a 'let the bodies pile high' approach. There were limits on gatherings, secondary schools were closed during the first two waves (though primaries stayed open), and the impact on health services was pretty devastating. Certainly there are things to be learned from their approach, but nobody should think it was a total free for all.

I never said it was a 'free for all', but they didn't lock down, they used other, more moderate measures. And I think a lot of people, including many voters with a Conservative/Libertarian bent, would have MUCH preferred that the UK took that more measured route. I was flabbergasted that we basically took Communist China's approach. I still can't believe the route this country was forced to take, thanks largely to the left-leaning media and left-wing voices in parliament and public life. We were told to stay at home and people were cautioned by the police for going a walk! Leisure travel was banned! Even those of us who are dual citizens were told we weren't allowed to go to our other country for any other reason than an emergency or business. We were told we weren't allowed to see our non-resident partners, that we couldn't visit our families, that we couldn't go from one area of the country to another. It was utter, utter batshit madness!

Exactly. I say it should have been shield the vulnerable, and keep most things going, especially education. I might even have tolerated masks if they prevented lockdown from happening at all. But no: it was “if we lock down long enough, we can send the virus packing - the resulting devastation is irrelevant”. And because of the vow to do “whatever it takes”, and Saint Boris being extremely reluctant to admit publicly that locking down was causing much more harm than good (even though he knew it himself), it became politically impossible to end lockdowns. Their only hope was that the vaccines were appearing to have the right effect: white lies like “vaccines prevent transmission” didn’t matter to Boris.

I do think that they could have ended lockdowns much sooner, when it became obvious that they were only delaying infection, not eliminating it. Even I might concede that the first lockdown was needed. The main problem was the way the government had no exit plan, no cost benefit analysis (and they had time to do this), infantilised the public, and in their own words, “frightened the pants off the public”. Lots of people have argued the second and third lockdowns were unnecessary, but because people were so frightened, the government had made a rod for their own back. They then doubled down on the fear messaging, with the “look them in the eyes” campaign. To me, Partygate was the proof that they knew things were nowhere near as bad as they were telling us. If that scandal had not happened, we might still be fearing another lockdown; but now, many people simply will not respect a future lockdown, even under a different government.

On this matter, it is a wrench for me to vote labour, because they “would have locked down harder and longer”: the only aspect of lockdowns that they criticised was the ending of them, or that they did not go far enough. I will not be voting conservative: if they had been truly conservative, I think they would have fought much harder to end lockdown sooner, or to argue against it. I think that ironically, if Boris had been in opposition rather than government, he would have plenty to say against lockdown. He might have been silenced, but he would have blurted it it out anyway. We might still have had lockdown, but the arguments against it might actually have been heard; they did not get a single look in, due to the Orwellian methods of the Ministry of Truth being wheeled out for the “emergency”.

Wonder if the 70 and 80 year olds
would still like it if they had to do it.

@AmpleFatball it's what the SDP claim to do. They are a very small party with no traction in our FPTP system but think they would appeal to alot of people. I actually think the main problem with the Tories isn't whether they are left or right but just they are massively incompetent and are rubbish at running the country.

Shield the vulnerable isn’t that easy.
Many vulnerable people live with non vulnerable that could have been forced to go to school or work.

Our nhs could never have coped with the numbers getting I’ll and dying. It wasn’t just the vulnerable that died

Most countries locked down just like we did, it’s inflammatory to say we copied communist China.! 🙄 @ladybirdsanchez

The only reason we could "lockdown" was because of the Internet and technology. How do people think "our" NHS coped during the last pandemics in 1957 and 68 which were far worse (particularly for children). People just got on with it but the media didn't screech on about everything in those days and we had just come through a war so people were used to keeping calm and carrying on.

Do you Tories have any thoughts on the D-Day situation?