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General election 2024

Long-standing Conservative voters thread

474 replies

Katypp · 26/05/2024 10:31

Any one else who has - up to this point at least - been a Tory voter?
I have voted Conservative at every national election (I am late 50s). This one is probably the most likely to change. Purely because I think new blood would be a good idea. I live in a very Labour area and have never shared my colours with anyone from being in my early 20s.
Given the fact that the Tories usually win, I suspect there are a lot like me.
I know it's a big ask, but I hope thar this might be a sensible thread for other natural Tory voters to discuss the election and not be called names and shouted down like we are on every other thread.
If you are a Labour voter, please don't hijack the thread and tell us how wrong we are. There is free speech in the UK and we are just as entitled to hold our opinion as you are to hold yours.

OP posts:
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pointythings · 29/05/2024 12:31

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 29/05/2024 12:26

Re BTL - I diagree re Labour - if and when they see votes, they will go for that group of people
Otherwise, sensible and factual post

Very like all political parties then. 🙄

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 29/05/2024 12:42

pointythings · 28/05/2024 19:14

@Opalfleur2025 we need green legislation though. Or we do if we want to leave a viable planet for future generations. And of course there are huge opportunities to make money from green technology.

Sadly, what "we need" and what we are promised are two completely different things if you believe any political party

It is time for change - but IMO, the bottom line, they are all the same, IE, the majority in it for themselves, if not at the outset, then soon after.

Liberals, I would never vote for them as often they don't know if they are coming or going but what they did re 'student fees' is unforgivable as unforgivable as Truss's f-up and Sunaks, pie in the sky promises re Rawanda and "rewarding people that work," IMO

Crikeyalmighty · 29/05/2024 13:05

@Katypp yep I don't agree with the amount of viciousness- but assure you it goes on from both sides equally- I think the far left are mainly couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery fruit loops- I hope Starmer doesn't give any of them a sniff of power if he gets in- I think the far right just as awful in a different way- and their voters reflect that situation in both party's. Same applies to Reform and the greens

KnittedCardi · 29/05/2024 13:26

As we are (hopefully) on a reasonable discussion thread, my biggest irritation at the moment is all the mud slinging rhetoric being thrown around by all the parties. There are no positive realistic ideas.

The Junior doctors are going on strike again. How cynical is that. That is really going to help reduce waiting lists. Will Labour cave and agree to their 35% wage request?? Untenable.

My current bore off, is the Liz Truss crashed the economy. Now, don't get me wrong, she is an objectionable loon. However, the rest of the Western world followed exactly the same interest and mortgage rates increases at exactly the same time, without a Liz Truss. The Bank of England is independent of politics, they have followed the rest of the world too. These things go beyond national governments.

My other real frustration is the "contracts for mates". Who are these "mates"? No-one can evidence. MP's don't have oversight of contract awards. These "mates" are often international corporations, used by every other country in the world. Labour will use the same companies. Will they be similarly accused?

I actually just want a non-confrotational discussion of policies. A reasonable discussion of the challenges faced today, not things that went in 10/20/30 years ago. Let's look forwards. What are you going to do, and how are you going to do it.

myturntonamechange · 29/05/2024 13:28

I’m a tactical voter in my 50s, but have never voted Tory. My constituency MP is Liam Fox who has previously got over 50% of the vote. It’ll be interesting to see how it falls this time.

I have two concerns. Firstly, many experienced and capable Tory MPs will lose their seats/are standing down. The loss of organisational memory will be massive regardless whether we support their politics. Many of the key Labour figures don’t appear to have ever actually done much, both in and out of parliament. Angela Rayner in particular here.

Possibly the greater concern is that turnout will be low and with our first past the post system, that could allow for more extreme views to be over-represented. The feeling of being lost and disillusionment on this thread echoes how many people think. Good, sensible thread though.

BIossomtoes · 29/05/2024 13:31

Who are these "mates"?

Michelle Mone. Dido Harding. Mustafa Mohammed. Mohamed Amersi. Hancock’s pub landlord. To name but five, doubtless there are many, many others.

NoPowerInTheVerse · 29/05/2024 13:34

The Tories have frequently won because we have a first past the post electoral system and until the advent of Reform the vote on the right has only one choice, unlike the progressive centre left, say, which is split across several parties. It's why I wouldn't ever vote Green or Yellow Turncoat in a general election, unless we had PR it's a wasted vote.

Opalfleur2025 · 29/05/2024 13:37

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 29/05/2024 12:26

Re BTL - I diagree re Labour - if and when they see votes, they will go for that group of people
Otherwise, sensible and factual post

The thing with the left is their voters like utopian solutions.

But the fact is we are a capitalist country with a largely privatized housing sector. There is no government funds to build more social housing or at least at the moment, even though many tories would also support the building of more social housing.

If the housing sector is private then the market rules. ultimately labour can only polish the edges, they will promise a lot more than what we can do. ultimately the problem isn't landlords, it is the affordability of housing. There is an argument that landlords are hoarding the supply of cheaper housing that first time buyers would traditionally buy. Labour's plan is to build more housing on the greenbelt that renters can afford to buy but the fact is that maybe only 20% of renters can afford to buy. Maybe they could increase it to 30% of renters but what is more likely is that the people who can buy are those living with mum and dad and biding their time i.e. perhaps if there is more supply they can buy a 3 bed house with their 50k deposit rather than a 2 bed flat. so what happens to the renters? They need affordable housing that doesn't have to do with their ability to raise a deposit- aka co-ops and social housing.

Neither have anything to do with private landlords but until we build the required affordable housing, Labour can only tinkle around the edges. Ultimately the shortage of affordable housing and social housing means that privately rented BTLs are the only port of call for most poor people (who do not qualify for social housing) and the market would decide.

I wouldn't worry too much if you are a landlord. You are the only port of call. The mortgage interest rate and the escalating costs of tradesmen are a problem as well as the tax but BTL is ultimately a business. you ride the rough with the smooth. All business models have to change with time, and sadly some can become unviable but that doesn't always have to do with the government policies.

CaveMum · 29/05/2024 14:19

@KnittedCardi if you don’t already I really recommend listening to both The Rest is Politics and Political Currency podcasts as both offer robust discussion from both main parties without the volatility.

Re Liz Truss I really recommend listening also to the mini-series that The Rest is Money did called Who Killed Liz Truss. It in no way excuses her (and for the record I think she’s an absolute loon!) but it does show that the BofE were more than a little culpable for what happened as they were allowing unregulated deals to take place.

schloss · 29/05/2024 15:18

OrangeBlossomsinthesun · 29/05/2024 09:52

The Conservatives have moved left in your opinion? What in earth would you consider left wing about the current Tory party?!?! Flabbergasted.

High taxes, high welfare, high immigration, nanny state and interfering in peoples lives when it is none of their business..............

Northernnature · 29/05/2024 15:31

I agree re Liz Truss. It suits Sunak et al to blame her for the dire state of the economy even though she was only PM for six (??) weeks. He's the one that wasted hundreds of billions during lockdown as chancellor and didn't even bother trying to get the billions defrauded back - just wrote it off. Not saying I like Truss anymore than Sunak/Hunt though -they're all a shower that deserve to be destroyed so a competent party can rise from the ashes.

Maddy70 · 29/05/2024 15:36

The conservatives are no longer Conservative. Far too right-wing for me currently. I will be voting labour in the next election

TheShellBeach · 29/05/2024 15:40

schloss · 29/05/2024 15:18

High taxes, high welfare, high immigration, nanny state and interfering in peoples lives when it is none of their business..............

What high welfare?
Who brought in the catastrophe that is Universal Credit?

And we need immigrants to do the jobs that Brits dislike so much. The Care sector is in terrible trouble, and they're actively recruiting from overseas. See also the NHS.

Also, what do you mean about interfering in people's lives? We need more social workers and probation officers, not fewer.

Opalfleur2025 · 29/05/2024 15:49

schloss · 29/05/2024 15:18

High taxes, high welfare, high immigration, nanny state and interfering in peoples lives when it is none of their business..............

The high taxes is because only 40% of the uk population is actually working and we need to pay for an ageing population (tory voters)
High welfare- many people are on nhs waiting lists so can't work. High rents mean more people are pushed into having to claim housing benefit or they will become homeless (more homeless people or people living in hotel rooms or other homeless shelters which costs more than just paying the rent in the first place). Our individualistic way of nuclear family living relies on a strong economy with adequately paid jobs for the bottom 20%; this hasn't been the case for the past 14 years hence men don't have the confidence to marry and instead engage in short term relationships with women, scupper once the women get pregnant and the women have to shoulder the burden of raising the child and also have to rely on help from the state. Women also don't want to marry men with no economic prospects (and are less likely to stay married or partnered up if there is economic instability and strife) but in 80% of cases, if there is a child (and a low paid single mum), welfare would be needed. Most graduate middle class couples are married (even if they are quite old when they do it) and often stay married, this also distorts the housing market cos the small supply of houses get bought up by such couples while working class women who are more likely to be single with children cannot compete on the housing market and are forced into precarious private rental if they can't get social housing/have to rely on housing benefit and childcare support from the state.

High immigration- care workers paid badly so need to recruit from overseas. Many people also sick so the people who used to work as careworkers go into other jobs which pay better since there is less competition. Higher education our second largest industry after finance and very important engine of growth for the regions- more international students. Also NHS staff are badly paid and attrition is high, morale low so need to recruit for overseas. Ageing population exacerbates it all.

Its not a left vs right debate anymore, it is about economics and our broken system. We are past the point of revamping it, so we need to paper over the cracks which results in high taxes and high immigration. Changing it would mean revamping our entire societal structure aka family playing a much larger role which i am not even sure conservatives are in favour of, let alone the left.

i am from Singapore where there are no unemployment benefits, state pensions or free healthcare but people survive. the family plays a much bigger role and people save 20% of their income every month for housing (they buy their own due to 89% home ownership so no need for housing benefit and live with family until their flat is built), healthcare (mandatory insurance and only 60-90% subsidy) and retirement (no state pension). Childcare often done by the elderly. Much lower rate of divorce generally. Totally different family structure and a level of social engineering that would make most tories wince (even if they like the very low taxes- average of 8% for most singaporeans and no welfare). Ethnic quotas in social housing, majority of people living in social housing (that they buy), lots of intrusive laws on what you can and cannot do. However, i would argue that the intrusiveness (as well as being a financial centre city state) is what is required to keep the taxes low. If you have good behaviour, you do not need to use welfare to paper over the cracks aka if people are incentivized to keep healthy, be peaceful and considerate and form strong family structures, then you spend less money in the long run trying to police antisocial behavior or making up for some idiot's inability to be a responsible father.

I am not saying the singaporean model is able to be replicated, i am just explaining the costs and benefits of each model and how the fantasy of the libertarian model is not compatible with our current society.

'Singapore is a lesson in what can be done when this mental trap is avoided. If the mark of a thinking person is a having a weird mix of beliefs, the island has had a few among its policymakers. This is a high-income nation where most people live in public housing. It is a private-sector paradise where civil servants can earn a fortune. It has an acute sense of independence from the west but uses English as the main language of instruction. Conservatives in Britain and America have tended to regard the island as proof of concept: look what stern laws and low taxes can do. (It was under President Reagan that LKY addressed the US Congress.) But the government involves itself in matters of identity to an extent that would make the same people flinch. The Singaporean “method” has been to come at each question afresh. The result is a lack of pattern: a libertarian nanny state. '

AquaZebra · 29/05/2024 16:00

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Northernnature · 29/05/2024 16:06

Thank you @Opalfleur2025 for that interesting post. I think the first Singapore leader (wasn't it part of British empire) used Britain as a model of governance to copy? (Obv in 1950s when families alot stronger and asb and crime alot lower). The trouble is personal responsibility has gone for a lot of British but do think state can afford to do less and less so will have to make a comeback.

Opalfleur2025 · 29/05/2024 16:08

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ahhh reform who wants to cut taxes while giving out private healthcare vouchers to anyone who needs to wait for nhs treatments.

Where can i meet the fairies and the unicorns?

https://ifs.org.uk/election-2024/be-chancellor

This is a great game where you can pretend to be the chancellor. Everyone should play it.

The first time i played it, i thought i was a genius (and they should make me chancellor) but it turned out that I had opted for 10% real terms cuts to all services. Including the bins. turns out cutting debt is easier said than done.

Be-the-Chancellor-Social-share.jpg

Be the Chancellor | Institute for Fiscal Studies

Our interactive tool lets you be the Chancellor. Change spending plans, set tax policies and see how your choices impact borrowing and debt.

https://ifs.org.uk/election-2024/be-chancellor

Opalfleur2025 · 29/05/2024 16:14

Northernnature · 29/05/2024 16:06

Thank you @Opalfleur2025 for that interesting post. I think the first Singapore leader (wasn't it part of British empire) used Britain as a model of governance to copy? (Obv in 1950s when families alot stronger and asb and crime alot lower). The trouble is personal responsibility has gone for a lot of British but do think state can afford to do less and less so will have to make a comeback.

it was and we used a lot of models not just the UK.

Our social housing scheme does not resemble its colonial predecessor. I think our schooling system is probably the most similar (plus bilingualism), we have the eleven plus (but at 12) and it is a compulsory national exam for everyone.

I would agree family should play more of a role, my dh is british but we have always tried to help his siblings/mother financially (paid his sister's council tax when she needed it and DH offered his mother 10k at the start of the pandemic as she is self employed), and we lived with his mother even though we could afford to rent because we wanted to buy our home. Also bought near his mother so we can support her in her old age even though she is only 62. I feel that british society is past that and it is very hard to persuade people that it should be this way. its why i still believe in welfare even though i don't ever want to take from the state cos i feel like people would literally be starving without it, so many people just don't care and it will be hard to change their minds. There would always be poorer/weaker people and they need to be helped

Dh's siblings certainly don't think this way, they don't have the same kind of angst about future sustainability that I have which i think is a sign of good fortune. They think they would always be fine because the government would help them or perhaps god would help them. Not sure what it is, never understood it.

AquaZebra · 29/05/2024 16:17

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Crikeyalmighty · 29/05/2024 16:20

Those of you planning to vote Reform- if what Harry Cole's said today is true (spied on Politics uk on x) then Farage has said there is a deal to be made with the Tory's if they make it worth his while!

Ha- ha- once a grifter- always a grifter!!

Crikeyalmighty · 29/05/2024 16:22

EXC: @Nigel_Farage to @RishiSunak:

"I've done them some huge favours over the years... Give me something back. We might have a conversation."

“What are they going to do back for me?"

Says no peerage but dangles a deal…

Mum1976Mum · 29/05/2024 16:22

I’ve voted conservative since I was 18. I’m nearly 50 now. Never have I hated a government more than this one. I was planning on voting Labour this time…until they announced they would be adding VAT to private school fees. That has really pissed me off as we are in the group who only use it due to having an SEN child who couldn’t cope in the shitty local school. We can’t really afford it now! We end up living on beans on toast the last week of every month. So, because of this policy only, I shall remain a conservative voter, albeit reluctantly.

ThankYouAgainAgain · 29/05/2024 17:06

Thank you very much for this thread. I'm life long labour voter and I've always wondered why people vote Conservative. I'm finding it extremely helpful and interesting to read about people's rational for supporting the Conservatives.

ladybirdsanchez · 29/05/2024 17:07

Crikeyalmighty · 29/05/2024 16:22

EXC: @Nigel_Farage to @RishiSunak:

"I've done them some huge favours over the years... Give me something back. We might have a conversation."

“What are they going to do back for me?"

Says no peerage but dangles a deal…

The mind boggles as to what he wants, doesn't it?

I mean, he got Brexit, which was his life's work and which has totally fucked up the British economy, so I really hope he's never in a position to ask!