How to check for possible Irish descent

[TitsWILLbetatted]

My mother (who was fostered out but saw her birth family regularly) always claimed firmly that her mother was Irish, and this grandmother (who I never met) did indeed have an Irish maiden name (Murphy). But certificates show her, and her parents, always in England. Is there any point in my doing a DNA test to check for any Irish descent? (I've already checked that mtDNA probably wouldn't help).

If you’re thinking of passport reason it won’t help. You’d have to prove their birth places and that you’re genetically linked to them via a proper court appointed dna test not an ancestry type one. I’m 58% Irish my great grandparents were born there but unless my dad agreed to a foreign birth scenario I cannot have a passport.

you can do an dna test and it may show you have Irish heritage.

however if you want a passport/citizenship one of your grandparents need to have been born on the isle of Ireland.

if you have their birth certificates and their birthplace is not Ireland then you cannot claim citizenship.

if your mother was on the FBR at the time of your birth then you can claim citizenship even if GP were not born in Ireland. However this is a lot of documentation and paperwork so surely your mum would know about it?

I did think of an Irish passport at one point, but quickly realised it wouldn't be possible. My motivation is different. Many thanks for the information so far, though.

Is it your mother's parents, or your grandmother's parents you say you've established were always in England? Can you go back a further generation?

Grandmother's parents. I've not been able to trace further back.

Are you sure you've got the right Murphy's it is a very common name. When you say certificates have you followed back to her birth and hopefully siblings you know of births then to her parents marriage to their births? Check for obvious siblings as witnesses etc to confirm things.

I know I have two sets of Irish great grand parents I can trace one set, but they have an uncommon name. I haven't been able to find the other set, their names are common and I have found various near misses but there is always a problem. Irish records are very patchy and it would also be easy to pick up similar English records instead.

I'm pretty sure I've got the right birth family of my grandmother, but I will check again. Thank you.

Yes I applied for my granddads birth certificate from Dublin.

i had name, including middle name, spouse, date of birth, address, and profession.

for some reason the registry office were convinced I meant a man with the same name, but birth year one year later and birth date one day out. So 14/04/22 instead of 15/04/21. Plus different address, wife and occupation!

not once, but they sent me this poor man’s birth certificate on 3 separate occasions!!

ok the cert was handwritten and not easily decipherable, but fairly clear it was a different bloke!

@TitsWILLbetatted If you have your mother's birth certificate, it should have both parents' names on it. Next step would be to search for their marriage certificate. Once you have that, it will give their ages and the names of both fathers. Once you know your grandmother's age and her father's name, you can search for her birth certificate. That will have your great-grandparent's names on it. And please do look at all potential hits, don't assume that the one you have found is the right one. And don't rely on other people's research either. Use the FreeBMD website to search for records.

You might find some of them on the 1921 England census, and that will give their place of birth.

This is why I hate women changing their names. Makes it a lot harder to trace ancestry.

i found my dads family and traced all male relatives easily. But the women were impossible as once they married and name changed tracking down marriage certs and finding who they married is hard, as many are held by churches rather than registry offices.

If you do an Ancestry test they'll break it down into maternal/paternal and you might see a lot of maternal cousins (third or more distant) in Ireland. You might be able to identify common ancestors (great great grandparents) on the trees of other users who tie you all together.

Ancestry DNA (and other similar services) will give you a breakdown into English/Irish/Scottish/Welsh but I wouldn't treat it as gospel. Ireland and the UK home nations are not so genetically distinct from each other that you can perfectly tell them apart.

More useful would be looking at DNA matches with other users to see if you have any relatives on there who are Irish.

Great advice, thanks everyone.

My grandparents’ parents were born in Ireland - on both sides. Both my parents could have an Irish passport but that’s as far as it goes. No use to me or my sibling…

Does it have to be DGP’s? I’m one generation further down

So your great grandparents? And you want to claim Irish citizenship? Why?

Yes my Great Grandparebts and I’d be interested for the same reasons that every one else apples probably

Yes it has to be grandparents.

basically one of your parents must be an Irish citizen at the time of your birth.

so someone born in Ireland is an Irish citizen. Their children are all also citizens, because their parent is.

if that child is born outside Ireland, they are still a citizen, so their children are eligible.

however, if your parent was not born in Ireland, you must apply to to the foreign birth register to gain citizenship.

once you have gained citizenship then your children are also eligible, but again must register with foreign births to become a citizen.

so great grandparents born on Ireland- citizen
their children born outside Ireland - grandparents- citizen
their children- parent, born to Irish citizens, who were not born in Ireland. Must register foreign birth to gain citizenship.
you* child. If your parent was on FBR before you are born then you are the child of an Irish citizen born outside Ireland. So you need to register as a foreign birth.

if your parents were born to an Irish citizen not born in Ireland, but did NOT register with Foreign births, they were not Irish citizens at the time of your birth and therefore you are not able to claim Irish citizenship.

That’s a really clear and comprehensive answer. Thank you for taking the time to reply. Looks like I’m keeping my nationality

My DGGF apparently came over to the UK perform in Vaudville although I don’t know the name of his act.