A step closer to solving a family mystery

[Latenightreader]

My Grandad’s father died when he was very small (2-3ish). His mother died at the age of 44 in 1939. They had very little and for years all we knew about my great grandfather came from their marriage certificate. I can’t find a death certificate or anything else about him. We do have the 1921 census (Grandad was born two weeks after it was taken) but nothing else. I recently found the electoral registers and have been able to narrow his date of death to a couple of years, but still no obvious death/birth certs. I’ve tried many different channels but he has a common surname (Robinson) and I’ve managed to rule out most of the possibilities.

Family legend says he changed his name, and I might be a step closer to identifying him! I did a DNA test and one of the matches is to a family my Grandad knew well but didn’t have a biological connection. Now it looks as if he really was related to them and it gives me tools to get a few steps closer to finding out about my great grandfather! If only Grandad was still alive and could do a DNA test himself…

Sorry, bit of a rambling message but I needed to tell someone…

That's sounding interesting for you OP. I hope the matches you contact respond, it's so frustrating when they don't. I don't know my real grandparents either yet I have first and second cousin matches on DNA sites who all seem to have taken a vow of silence!
Have you tried going through the UK Births database on Ancestry with just your granddad's year of birth, his forename and his mum's maiden name? It's a laborious process (I hope he wasn't 'John' or 'William') but it might throw something up. At least you know his age and where he lived.

Sadly he's William Robinson! I know his rough date of birth and father's name and profession, but that assumes he was telling the truth on the 1921 register and their marriage certificate... No idea of his mother's name, have managed to rule out pretty much all of the possibilities on the earlier census returns...

I'm not holding out too much hope for the match to reply - they haven't been active for over a year. At least I have the first real lead since the 1921 census came out!

Oh dear! I am trying to search for a 'Mary Reilly', in Ireland, so I sympathise!

"If only Grandad was still alive and could do a DNA test himself…"

If either of your parents are still alive then that will likely make a huge difference. I really would recommend that you ask your parents if they would be prepared to do a DNA test as well.

That could also really help with identifying further relatives of your great grandfather.

A few years ago my parents both did a DNA test with Ancestry (they were born in the late 1930s, my sibling and I were born in the mid 1960s). Between them, they have so many more DNA matches than I do.

For example, on Ancestry I have 22,791 matches. But, my dad has 21,896 matches and my mum has 25,870 matches.

Just by going back a generation I have gone from having 22,791 matches myself to 21,896 + 25,870 = 47,776 matches from both of my parents.

(Although, technically I have 23 matches from both sides so only 47,753 distinct matches).

For me, going back a generation with the DNA test has more than doubled the number of matches.

"I can’t find a death certificate or anything else about him ... I recently found the electoral registers and have been able to narrow his date of death to a couple of years, but still no obvious death/birth certs."

Have you tried looking on the GRO website?

You may need to make a free account to search, but if you go here:

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

You can search for both birth and death certificates free of charge. With birth certificates you can also search for the mother's maiden name and with death certificates it will give you the age at death.

"Sorry, bit of a rambling message but I needed to tell someone…"

Don't worry at all, I totally understand that feeling and have also used this forum to vent in the past.

What UK nations are we talking? Just thinking of the England and Wales Register carried out by the war office...when did your great granny die in 1939? Were the Scots registered, I've often wondered that.

@Another2Cats you don't happen to know if 'Eire' nationals were registered separately in 1939? My relative is proving very elusive.

I hope you figure it out! I remember the day I solved the mystery of who my nanna’s dad was. Turns out the man she thought was her dad really was her dad and the drama that led to the secrecy was just that she was born out of wedlock 🙄

There was no register in the Republic of Ireland but there was in Northern Ireland.

Trouble is though that you have to make an individual FOI request for every address that you are looking for (but there's no charge) to the Public Record Office of Northern Ireland. There is a very good explanation of what you need to do here:

https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/1939-national-register.html

As far as I'm aware, since the Republic of Ireland remained neutral throughout the war there was no register in 1939 or later. However, unlike Northern Ireland where the 1926 records were destroyed, I believe that the 1926 Eire Census records still exist and will be made public next year.
.

With the Scottish register, it's also done by an FOI but you need to pay £15 and also need to know the date of death of the person and, if they died outside of Scotland, you also need to supply their death certificate.

https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/registration/order-a-copy-of-a-certificate/#order1939extract

Thanks @Another2Cats. I phrased my question badly - I meant Irish nationals living in England and Wales. I can't think why they wouldn't have been included with the rest of the population, as after all Eire was neutral, but I can't track this woman down though I think she was in England then. Strange, unless she married.

Family historians are very keen to have the Register released generally in the north as we have so few records, because, as you say, the 1926 NI census was destroyed. But as Stormont is so chronically apathetic and incompetent, I think it'll be a long wait.

Apparently the UK's census for 1931 was destroyed in the Blitz as well, so the 1939 Register has become really important.

Why was the 1926 Census destroyed ?

Some fool in the old Stormont administration decided to pulp it during WWII as part of a paper-making drive, apparently. It's never been confirmed - I suppose because no one wanted to admit to such idiocy. It was historically invaluable - the first since partition.

Oh No. 🥲
DH was hoping to get information on his Northern Irish family.

If they were born/married/died before April 1921 the website Search - Irish Genealogy is very useful, but after that - pah! You have to pay to search GRONI's database and it gets v expensive. The 1939 Register really needs to be made available to search free of charge, but doubtless there'll be an excuse for why they can't do that.

@Latenightreader Where did this information come from?

"My Grandad's father died when he was very small (2-3ish)"

Could it perhaps be that he hadn't died, but this was the story told to his children and the wider family at the time, in order to save face.
He might have gone to prison, or just left and abandoned his wife & kids. Or, of course, moved in with another woman and had another family, which could explain this DNA link you've found. What was their surname? He might have changed his surname to theirs. If your grandfather knew this family well, there is going to be a reason for that somewhere.

I have considered this, but his wife Margaret remarried shortly afterwards and I don't think she would have risked being exposed as a bigamist unless it was absolutely certain he wasn't coming back. I've definitely considered that he might have been a wrong'un!

My Grandad and his older brother talked about their father dying, but they were both under five. Grandad was born in 1921, his brother in 1919. Their father appears on the 1921 census, and then on the electoral register between 1918 and 1924. Margaret remarried in 1925 but her second husband dies in 1929. I thought I'd found my g-grandfather in a TB hospital but details didn't quite match up.

I have the marriage certificate from 1918, and one of the witnesses shares the surname I didn't expect to be biologically related to. An added dimension is that we know nothing about Margaret's father as her mother was single when she was born! I need a crash course in understanding DNA.

What was your g-grandfather's occupation? I'm wondering whether he was working away from home and died elsewhere. Overseas, maybe. That would explain why you can't find a death registration.

Checking if he died abroad is a good shout - especially in India during that period. I was beginning to think my grandfather had stolen someone’s identity in WW2 but actually he was born in Burma!

It’s worth noting that until the late 1930s (I think) British India included current India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma and some parts of the UAE so there’s a lot of scope there.

After the Great War, some men sought work in New Zealand or Australia. It might be possible to look up passenger lists.

That came to mind because my husband's grandfather worked in NZ for a while and I found his name on a passenger list. The grandfather's brother emigrated on a permanent basis and died out there.

We actually found quite a bit of info about the brother online, in NZ newspaper reports, etc.

He was a boiler coverer working for a firm called Keenans in Hackney. I haven't been able to find out if any of their records exist but I fear not.

You could try some trade directories and see if there's anything in there about the business. Also a possibility is the London, Westminster & Middlesex Family History Society, aka LWMFHS. There could be members researching the same families you are. Do you know which newspaper covered Hackney at that time? If he was killed at work (and boilers makes that a possibility - they have a habit of exploding) it could have been covered in the local paper. Or his death could simply be reported in the notices. One of my lot had an inquest into her death and the newspaper spelled her surname wrong.

Sometimes the only thing to do is to work sideways and find out as much as you can about the wider family, addresses, informants' names on death certificates, and witnesses on marriage certificates. Occasionally a link presents itself unexpectedly. Good luck.