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Genealogy

Note on banns - unsure of meaning

18 replies

IzzyHandsIsMySpiritAnimal · 25/02/2025 20:08

Just looking at a record of banns of marriage for an ancestor (at least, I think it's her) and beside the three dates is written "out" - this appears beside a few other entries in the same register, whereas others have a date on which the wedding took place.
I can't quite work out what 'out' might mean other than possibly outside the parish. But in this case, bride and groom are 'of this parish' so I'm not feeling any the wiser. I can't find an actual marriage certificate (marriage was 1833) so am not absolutely certain this is the right person, but they have the right name and are in the right area at around the right time.
Any suggestions are gratefully received.

OP posts:
LIZS · 25/02/2025 20:12

Banns are normally read three times.

DrUptonsGardenGnome · 25/02/2025 20:12

Does it mean that the banns were read out?

IzzyHandsIsMySpiritAnimal · 25/02/2025 21:00

The entry lists the three dates the banns were read, but then beside that it says 'out'. This is the case for a few other entries in the register. Other entries on the same pages have a fourth date written adjacent to the date of the banns which I take to be the date of marriage.
I can't seem to find a marriage, nor any other obvious sign in the census of the couple.

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Spirallingdownwards · 25/02/2025 21:01

Perhaps it means they were married outside the parish. I think they used to be read in the place you married and the place you lived if they were different.

IzzyHandsIsMySpiritAnimal · 25/02/2025 21:02

Screen shot to illustrate what I mean.

Note on banns - unsure of meaning
OP posts:
IzzyHandsIsMySpiritAnimal · 25/02/2025 21:19

Spirallingdownwards · 25/02/2025 21:01

Perhaps it means they were married outside the parish. I think they used to be read in the place you married and the place you lived if they were different.

I wondered that but both parties are of the parish so it doesn't make any sense that they'd marry elsewhere - not saying they didn't as I can't find any more about them to see what became of either of them.

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Supperlite · 25/02/2025 21:27

It is correct and still the case that the banns are read in the parish church where you live and also the church you will be married in. It’s seems likely the “out” refers to their being married outside of that church.
It is possible that they were married in a church with sentimental significance, such as (for example) where one of their parents were married.

LIZS · 25/02/2025 21:32

Was there more than one church in the parish?

EmmaMaria · 25/02/2025 21:40

Hmm. Can you tell us what time period we are looking at? I don't know off the top of my head when the practice was abandoned, but at one time some marriages were not performed inside the church. They took place in the porch outside the church.

And I just looked it up - the practice stopped in 1753.

PreFabBroadBean · 25/02/2025 22:41

I thought it might mean the marriage didn't take place, which would make the most sense. However, the James Foord marriage says "out", but he clearly married in the church. Although perhaps that was written in error.

IzzyHandsIsMySpiritAnimal · 25/02/2025 22:50

@LIZS possibly, I haven't checked, but did try looking for a marriage, and got directed back to the banns. I can check that out as an option.

@EmmaMaria this was 1833.

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WellsAndThistles · 25/02/2025 22:58

It can mean the person wasn't living in the parish, probably born and bred there but moved away.

Or, especially in Scotland, born out of wedlock.

PreFabBroadBean · 26/02/2025 08:10

I thought about this some more, and I wonder whether it's a bit of admin. You had to get married within three months of the banns being read (1823 Marriage Act - before then, there was no time limit).

The banns book would be filled in, and the marriage entered when it took place (even if it was in a different parish, as the church would be informed). I notice one marriage entry said "did not come" in place of the marriage date, so the date must only have been filled in after the event.

Then sometime after the three months ran out, the writer would enter "out", meaning out of time to marry with those banns. And they just made a mistake with Mr Foord - his banns were written in different handwriting, which might explain that.

IzzyHandsIsMySpiritAnimal · 26/02/2025 10:49

PreFabBroadBean · 26/02/2025 08:10

I thought about this some more, and I wonder whether it's a bit of admin. You had to get married within three months of the banns being read (1823 Marriage Act - before then, there was no time limit).

The banns book would be filled in, and the marriage entered when it took place (even if it was in a different parish, as the church would be informed). I notice one marriage entry said "did not come" in place of the marriage date, so the date must only have been filled in after the event.

Then sometime after the three months ran out, the writer would enter "out", meaning out of time to marry with those banns. And they just made a mistake with Mr Foord - his banns were written in different handwriting, which might explain that.

Ah thankyou - that may be the answer - they had banns read but didn't marry. I couldn't find anything on the 1841 census.
I'll have another look and see if there are any potential matches within 3 months in nearby parishes and if not, shall have to conclude that they didn't marry.

OP posts:
Another2Cats · 26/02/2025 23:37

IzzyHandsIsMySpiritAnimal · 26/02/2025 10:49

Ah thankyou - that may be the answer - they had banns read but didn't marry. I couldn't find anything on the 1841 census.
I'll have another look and see if there are any potential matches within 3 months in nearby parishes and if not, shall have to conclude that they didn't marry.

What @PreFabBroadBean said seems likely. On that page you gave there were three couples with "Out" against them.

George Payne and Esther Catherine Savage got married four months later on 25th December 1833 at a different church in Camden.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/1623/records/914761515

James Foord and Elizabeth Winnup actually got married in that church on the Monday after the banns were read out for the third time

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/1623/records/7947002

As to John Hobson and Mary Ann Haswell, it appears that they didn't end up getting married. Although there is a record of a Mary Ann Haswell marrying a William Rodmell three years later in Bethnal Green. No idea if it's the same person.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/1623/records/6343445

IzzyHandsIsMySpiritAnimal · 26/02/2025 23:54

Thabkyou @Another2Cats - I shall take a look at the information you've provided.

I'd not encountered "out" in parish records before and it had me stumped.

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IzzyHandsIsMySpiritAnimal · 27/02/2025 09:34

Thought I should come back and update that the person I was looking at (which I missed out from my post) was Mary Ann Haswell. She might have been the person in the banns here, although on reflection, she'd have been about 18 in 1833, so maybe not. The Mary Ann picked up later isn't "my" Mary Ann as the marriage cert shows a different father.
Appreciate all the input and advice.

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Ellmau · 03/03/2025 00:13

The fact that the couples who don't have Out against them have a date instead suggests to me that it does mean they married elsewhere. Not something I've come across though!

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