How do I find out the names of merchant ships a relative worked on?

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 01/09/2024 12:22

SwedishEdith · 01/09/2024 12:09

I have an ancestor that was in the merchant navy from 1949 to 1952. I have got his seaman's ticket from The National Archives but that only gives me the name of the last ship he worked on. How do I find out about all his trips? Would I to visit the NA in person and search myself?

Thanks

Yes! As it turns out, a couple of my relatives were also in the Merchant Navy.

I haven't quite found the energy to traipse all the way to Kew though.

Original poster

SwedishEdith · 01/09/2024 12:26

Ah, I had a feeling that might be the case. I got the photocopied ticket (think it's called a 'pouch', technically or colloquially - not sure) during Covid and was hoping it would give a full listing of ships and/or trips made.

I think you have to book a timeslot for Kew as well which will need some planning if not close.

OP posts:

Another2Cats · 05/09/2024 20:37

SwedishEdith · 01/09/2024 12:26

Ah, I had a feeling that might be the case. I got the photocopied ticket (think it's called a 'pouch', technically or colloquially - not sure) during Covid and was hoping it would give a full listing of ships and/or trips made.

I think you have to book a timeslot for Kew as well which will need some planning if not close.

"How do I find out about all his trips? Would I to visit the NA in person and search myself?"

Before actually visiting the NA it's best to search online to see if they have the actual documents you're after.

To be frank, I've never had any ancestors in the merchant navy so I really don't know what sort of records are kept (the nearest I've got is some ancestors who used to work on canal barges).

I've had ancestors who were in the navy and there are records of each ship and shore station where they served, but I have no idea what records exist for the merchant navy.

The first step would be to search online at the NA. Here are a couple of suggestions (which you may already have searched):

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/merchant-navy-ships-records-crew-lists-musters-and-log-books/

or here

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/merchant-seamen-serving-since-1918/

Some records are available to download online. There is a charge of £3.50 to download these, but, if you register with the NA then they are free of charge.

Sometimes, records are not available to download. The only reason to actually visit the NA is if you want to see a document that is not available online.

Below is an image of the message you get when a document isn't available online. If you see this message then you have to go to Kew to see the document.

"I think you have to book a timeslot for Kew as well which will need some planning if not close."

No, you just need to book a particular day and you can turn up anytime on that day you like.

If you've never been to Kew before and you want to view any documents you first have to register for a Reader's Ticket online which you do when you book a visit:

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/book-a-reading-room-visit/

So, you say what date you want to visit and then provide a list of what documents you want to see.

They also have desks with camera stands. So you just screw your camera to the stand facing down and then instead of having to take notes or anything you can quickly and easily take a photo of every page of the documents that you are looking at.

This makes things so much easier but you do need to specifically request a desk with a camera stand.

The NA can be a bit of a trek to get to. I come into London on the train into Kings Cross and from there take the tube to Kew Gardens. It's then about a 10 min walk to the NA.

When you arrive there is a cafe there but it is horribly overpriced and not very nice.

You then put all the stuff you're not allowed to take into a locker:

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/about/visit-us/researching-here/can-take-reading-rooms/

and go upstairs. If you haven't been before then they will take your photo and print out your Reader's Ticket.

You then go into the reading room and head to the desk. They will typically have your documents waiting for you in a locker. You then go to that locker and take the document or documents and then go to the desk that you have been assigned.

You then take your photos or anything else that you want to do and then, when you're finished, you return the documents to a different desk.

But the thing is, unless you can find the documents you're looking for on the NA website then going there in person won't help you at all. You really do need to identify what documents you're interested in and for them not to be available to download.

How do I find out the names of merchant ships a relative worked on?

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2024 16:39

Watching with interest.

This is an area I've not fully been able to grips with. I am aware that a lot of records are held at the National Archive but my understanding was this wasn't the complete picture, with a lot of records still in local archives. Which has been one of many reasons I've not followed it up (I don't want to go to either the local archive or the national archive on a wild goose chase as both as some considerable distance and its not viable without an overnight stay - I'm mainly interested in Southampton).

There is SOME information available on CLIP.
https://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/external

I'm not sure if it goes right to the end of the period you are looking for. The problem I've had with this database is its limited. Not all ships are on it by a long shot. I've found one person I was looking for, but not all, its not the easiest to search and there's obvious gaps in the sailing history for the one person I have found.

It does have some more links to other sources though, which might be useful.
https://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/external

The records I need are from the 1840s to mid 1920s. Theres a merchant seaman index on findmypast which is some of the digitised records from the national archives. The issue I've found with this is they just give a name and a town of birth. They sometimes have a date of birth, but I've found these can be all over the place and totally inaccurate for the same man - it seems they fudged dates of birth for various reasons to get employment. I can find records for a name and then a list of the ship numbers they've served on (and then use clip to search the ship name) but again its somewhat limited.

One of the websites linked from CLIP is maritime history archive. This is a none British Archive. Its supposed to have 70% of the crew lists of british ports. But I've never really found a huge amount of use - the website is old and the search facility incomprehensible! There's clearly lots on there, I just have never figured it out. https://mha.mun.ca/mha/ I think this is likely to mostly before the time period you want.

I think you will find the time period particularly difficult if I'm honest. Because its 1949 - 1952, what you might find is the records relating to individuals will still be closed so you won't be able to look up which ships he was on. This is due to the general 100 year rule - anything related to someone born under 100 years ago tends to be limited access. They are only starting on digitising records relating to WWII military records for online release at the moment because of this. If you know what ships he was on, you should be able to track their routes but not whether your man was onboard at the time.

This means that any records you are hunting are likely to still be paper and may well still be limited or closed access (some limited access records can be viewed if you can prove death but it depends on the individual record set and the rules for that dataset).

I've found it a right headache. I have one family who have a distinct surname where numerous men were merchant seamen, and Ive still not got very far.

I want to be able to identify their ID number, the ships they were on and when they were onboard to see where they went but I've not managed that even for the 1920 - 1925 period.

Good luck!

Original poster

SwedishEdith · 16/09/2024 13:58

Another2Cats · 05/09/2024 20:37

"How do I find out about all his trips? Would I to visit the NA in person and search myself?"

Before actually visiting the NA it's best to search online to see if they have the actual documents you're after.

To be frank, I've never had any ancestors in the merchant navy so I really don't know what sort of records are kept (the nearest I've got is some ancestors who used to work on canal barges).

I've had ancestors who were in the navy and there are records of each ship and shore station where they served, but I have no idea what records exist for the merchant navy.

The first step would be to search online at the NA. Here are a couple of suggestions (which you may already have searched):

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/merchant-navy-ships-records-crew-lists-musters-and-log-books/

or here

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/merchant-seamen-serving-since-1918/

Some records are available to download online. There is a charge of £3.50 to download these, but, if you register with the NA then they are free of charge.

Sometimes, records are not available to download. The only reason to actually visit the NA is if you want to see a document that is not available online.

Below is an image of the message you get when a document isn't available online. If you see this message then you have to go to Kew to see the document.

"I think you have to book a timeslot for Kew as well which will need some planning if not close."

No, you just need to book a particular day and you can turn up anytime on that day you like.

If you've never been to Kew before and you want to view any documents you first have to register for a Reader's Ticket online which you do when you book a visit:

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/book-a-reading-room-visit/

So, you say what date you want to visit and then provide a list of what documents you want to see.

They also have desks with camera stands. So you just screw your camera to the stand facing down and then instead of having to take notes or anything you can quickly and easily take a photo of every page of the documents that you are looking at.

This makes things so much easier but you do need to specifically request a desk with a camera stand.

The NA can be a bit of a trek to get to. I come into London on the train into Kings Cross and from there take the tube to Kew Gardens. It's then about a 10 min walk to the NA.

When you arrive there is a cafe there but it is horribly overpriced and not very nice.

You then put all the stuff you're not allowed to take into a locker:

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/about/visit-us/researching-here/can-take-reading-rooms/

and go upstairs. If you haven't been before then they will take your photo and print out your Reader's Ticket.

You then go into the reading room and head to the desk. They will typically have your documents waiting for you in a locker. You then go to that locker and take the document or documents and then go to the desk that you have been assigned.

You then take your photos or anything else that you want to do and then, when you're finished, you return the documents to a different desk.

But the thing is, unless you can find the documents you're looking for on the NA website then going there in person won't help you at all. You really do need to identify what documents you're interested in and for them not to be available to download.

Show quote history

@Another2Cats , sorry I thought I'd replied to you already. I have actually paid for the photo copies of the seaman's ticket from the NA already. So I have that. Just not sure if there is more information I could see. I'll dig around but I'm sure I read somewhere that I may need to go there to get the trip details. I know where this ancestor said they'd been, I'd just like to bring this to life a bit to see the actual ships he worked on.

OP posts:

Original poster

SwedishEdith · 16/09/2024 14:00

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2024 16:39

Watching with interest.

This is an area I've not fully been able to grips with. I am aware that a lot of records are held at the National Archive but my understanding was this wasn't the complete picture, with a lot of records still in local archives. Which has been one of many reasons I've not followed it up (I don't want to go to either the local archive or the national archive on a wild goose chase as both as some considerable distance and its not viable without an overnight stay - I'm mainly interested in Southampton).

There is SOME information available on CLIP.
https://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/external

I'm not sure if it goes right to the end of the period you are looking for. The problem I've had with this database is its limited. Not all ships are on it by a long shot. I've found one person I was looking for, but not all, its not the easiest to search and there's obvious gaps in the sailing history for the one person I have found.

It does have some more links to other sources though, which might be useful.
https://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/external

The records I need are from the 1840s to mid 1920s. Theres a merchant seaman index on findmypast which is some of the digitised records from the national archives. The issue I've found with this is they just give a name and a town of birth. They sometimes have a date of birth, but I've found these can be all over the place and totally inaccurate for the same man - it seems they fudged dates of birth for various reasons to get employment. I can find records for a name and then a list of the ship numbers they've served on (and then use clip to search the ship name) but again its somewhat limited.

One of the websites linked from CLIP is maritime history archive. This is a none British Archive. Its supposed to have 70% of the crew lists of british ports. But I've never really found a huge amount of use - the website is old and the search facility incomprehensible! There's clearly lots on there, I just have never figured it out. https://mha.mun.ca/mha/ I think this is likely to mostly before the time period you want.

I think you will find the time period particularly difficult if I'm honest. Because its 1949 - 1952, what you might find is the records relating to individuals will still be closed so you won't be able to look up which ships he was on. This is due to the general 100 year rule - anything related to someone born under 100 years ago tends to be limited access. They are only starting on digitising records relating to WWII military records for online release at the moment because of this. If you know what ships he was on, you should be able to track their routes but not whether your man was onboard at the time.

This means that any records you are hunting are likely to still be paper and may well still be limited or closed access (some limited access records can be viewed if you can prove death but it depends on the individual record set and the rules for that dataset).

I've found it a right headache. I have one family who have a distinct surname where numerous men were merchant seamen, and Ive still not got very far.

I want to be able to identify their ID number, the ships they were on and when they were onboard to see where they went but I've not managed that even for the 1920 - 1925 period.

Good luck!

Good point about the timescale and not being over 100 years old. Hadn't considered that. Frustrating if that's the case.

OP posts:

Original poster

SwedishEdith · 16/09/2024 14:30

This was the information I'd read elsewhere about what you can find at the NA so may try and plan a trip.

OP posts: