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Genealogy

DNA matches - confused

12 replies

whojamaflip · 22/06/2024 09:15

Please can someone explain how dna connections work?

I've been matched with several people as 3rd cousins through my dna results - they all have connected surnames and trees so looking at them it's easy to see where the relationship comes from.

My problem is I've done extensive research on my family tree and no where do any of these ancestor names appear. I've chased down all the marriages of sisters etc and I just can't find any link.

Am I right in thinking 3rd cousins would mean we are connected 3-4 generations back at the most?

So I'm now thinking there's a skeleton in my family tree? Or have I just got myself really confused how this all works?

OP posts:
Mia85 · 22/06/2024 09:18

Are their trees accurate? Lots of people just accept the suggestion that ancestry (etc) gives them and copy information from others. It might be a skeleton in the cupboard but it might also just be inaccuracies.

whojamaflip · 22/06/2024 09:29

It would appear their trees are accurate and they have all come up as dna matches to each other as well so there is definitely a relationship there. The geographic areas match mine just none of the families 🤷‍♀️

OP posts:
merryhouse · 22/06/2024 10:29

Third cousins means that your latest common ancestor is a great-great-grandparent of one or both of you.

By which I mean, if they were gg-gp of you and ggg-gp of other, you'd be third cousins once removed. However if they were gg-gp of you and g-gp of other, you'd be second cousins once removed.

So (at least) one of your great-great-grandparents is one of their great-great-or-more-grandparents...OR

one of your more-than-two-greats-grandparents is one of their gg-grandparents. Depending on ages it could be three or four removes. What generation are you at the time you overlap with them?

whojamaflip · 22/06/2024 10:40

That's the thing I can't find any overlap - I am in contact with 2 of the 3rd cousins who are both around my age (50's) and there is simply no connection whatsoever going back to my ggg grandparents. They have both got extensive trees and have found ancestors in common between them at gg grandparents generation.

Neither of them have any names in common with my tree and I haven't any of their names either

I do admit I don't understand much about dna but surely there should be a direct link down through the generations?

OP posts:
Anonym00se · 22/06/2024 10:46

whojamaflip · 22/06/2024 10:40

That's the thing I can't find any overlap - I am in contact with 2 of the 3rd cousins who are both around my age (50's) and there is simply no connection whatsoever going back to my ggg grandparents. They have both got extensive trees and have found ancestors in common between them at gg grandparents generation.

Neither of them have any names in common with my tree and I haven't any of their names either

I do admit I don't understand much about dna but surely there should be a direct link down through the generations?

Re the two third cousins: What is their relationship to each other. Are they also 3rd cousins to each other (in which case their common gg grandparent will be the link to you). Or are they siblings to each other (in which case the common relative will be harder to pin down).

How complete are both your trees? If there are missing branches on either yours or theirs it will difficult to say if there are skeletons- they may just have missed your branch off their tree and it’s all above board.

Duckwoo · 22/06/2024 10:54

Have you got DNA matches that confirm the family tree you'd already done, for both sides of your family? (Surnames you recognise showing up in their trees etc?)

NorthernMouse · 22/06/2024 11:02

What kind of area does your family come from? How much did people move around? I match ‘too closely’ with people on my dad’s side because there are multiple overlaps - not inbreeding necessarily (although a bit of that too) but the same families marrying into different branches of my family again and again. So a fourth cousin shows up as a third cousin, etc.

NavyKitchen · 22/06/2024 13:48

NorthernMouse · 22/06/2024 11:02

What kind of area does your family come from? How much did people move around? I match ‘too closely’ with people on my dad’s side because there are multiple overlaps - not inbreeding necessarily (although a bit of that too) but the same families marrying into different branches of my family again and again. So a fourth cousin shows up as a third cousin, etc.

Was about to say this, my sister (through adoption so not DNA related to me) is a high second cousin match to my best friend's mum! We were quite excited thinking that we were all related quite closely (well, I know I'm not blood related but through my adoptive family).
I couldn't find a link going back generations. Then, distant cousins popped up in common and we realised that my sister is related to my friend and her mum on both her mum and her dad's sides. She is, we think, something like fourth cousin on one side and sixth cousin on the other but the combination makes it appear much closer.

Look at the distant matches that you share in common with these third cousins and see if you can find a link there...

Slugsandsnailsresidehere · 22/06/2024 13:59

I have very similar with someone who apparently is a 2nd or 3rd cousin but we have no overlap in our trees at all, and only one branch were living roughly in the same area of London in the 1900s. I imagine someone in her tree had sex with someone in mine and then lied about subsequent paternity of the resulting child!

Another2Cats · 22/06/2024 15:31

"Am I right in thinking 3rd cousins would mean we are connected 3-4 generations back at the most?"

Generally speaking, yes. But it could also be quite a bit further back than that. For example, I've had quite a few matches on Ancestry that they say are 4th-6th cousins but, in fact are 7th cousins (and even one seventh cousin once removed).

This can happen where a limited number of families intermarry over several generations. What this means is that more of the dna stays within the same family and so it appears that you are more closely related than you really are.

"I've been matched with several people as 3rd cousins through my dna results - they all have connected surnames and trees so looking at them it's easy to see where the relationship comes from."

I've had a similar situation to that as well. On Ancestry my dad matched with one person and, when I checked, I found that they had 107 shared matches in common (so we all have a common ancestor somewhere). They were a mixture of 2nd to 4th cousins to each other and Ancestry said that my dad was a 4-6th cousin to all of them.

Digging into things a bit more, they all lived in the USA and those that had significant family trees all had ancestors going back to at least the early 1700s in America.

In genetics there is something called "endogamy" which is where the same extended families tended to intermarry over several generations. You can then still see the results of this in the DNA hundreds of years later.

The intermarrying means that more of the dna is retained within the family for much longer and it makes it appear as though you are more closely related to somebody else than you actually are.

It is not uncommon for colonial Americans, Ashkenazi Jews, French Canadians and US Cajuns to have large numbers of DNA matches due to endogamy many decades or centuries previously. The same thing applies to certain communities from South Asia as well.

So, it may well be that the connection is a lot further back.

"So I'm now thinking there's a skeleton in my family tree?"

On the other hand this may well be the case. It certainly happens.

On 23andme I came across a DNA match who was a 3rd cousin. Her mother and aunt had both been adopted in the early 1920s and she was keen to find out about who her maternal grandparents might have been.

I did a bit of digging and found both the mother and aunt's birth certificates. The name given as the father on the birth certificates was the grandmother's husband. The only trouble is, he had been dead for five years by the time the eldest sister was born.

Given the dna connection it is likely that it was a relation of mine that was the actual father and not the deceased husband named on the birth certificate.

It is likely one of the male relatives from my great grandparents generation (my grandparents generation were too young) on my mother's side. I do have one candidate in mind (he did live in that city at the time). If it is him then it turns out that we actually related as third cousins once removed.

By the way, there is a very good youtube video which explains very simply how all the third cousins and once removed things work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM79Epw_cp8

incessantpunditry · 22/06/2024 17:48

Yes, well. What could possibly have happened here is that an ancestor of yours and theirs is the same person. But in that locality at the same time was a different person, and either you or they have followed the wrong trail. This sometimes happens when a man's wife dies and he marries another woman with the same first name.

I did it with one of mine. Got back to great-great grandparents on one side, and then realised there was another (say) Jane Smith who was my real ancestor and not the one I thought it was.

NotDavidTennant · 22/06/2024 17:59

If all of you have extensive tress that Ancestry should be able to suggest the shared ancestor. If that's not the case and you can't find a shared ancestor yourself then it's likely that one of the people in your tree (probably at the great-great grandparent level) is not your true ancestor.

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