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Genealogy

Death certificate questions

21 replies

SingaporeSlinky · 30/01/2024 12:48

I ordered a number of death certificates for my ancestors yesterday. One is puzzling me and googling is only helping a little.

The man’s name (for example) is listed as John Smith, otherwise Jones. Does this mean he had an alias, or perhaps one was his official name and one was a step-father’s surname or something else?

Also, he died in hospital, his address was given, and under the informant column, there was a name, same address and “causing the body to be buried”. I believe that means someone not related who is arranging the funeral. What would this generally mean? If their address was the same, I can only think maybe the man, who was aged 65, was living in a care home or something? Surely if the address of the informant was the same as the man, it would have their relationship, even if a lodger / friend etc.

Thanks in advance.

OP posts:
Seeline · 30/01/2024 12:51

How long ago was the death?

RoseAndRose · 30/01/2024 12:54

Another possibility is that the informant is a relative in the female line, so surname would not match.

Do you know anything about his life? Was he in a position to have servants?

LIZS · 30/01/2024 12:55

Could be a carehome, hospice or if older a workhouse.

Seeline · 30/01/2024 12:56

Also, he died in hospital

This could have different meanings in the past.

Seeline · 30/01/2024 12:58

Can you look up the address on the most relevant census to see who else was living there? That should tell you the Head of the Household and how the other occupants were related to them including lodgers, servants etc

TeabySea · 30/01/2024 12:58

SingaporeSlinky · 30/01/2024 12:48

I ordered a number of death certificates for my ancestors yesterday. One is puzzling me and googling is only helping a little.

The man’s name (for example) is listed as John Smith, otherwise Jones. Does this mean he had an alias, or perhaps one was his official name and one was a step-father’s surname or something else?

Also, he died in hospital, his address was given, and under the informant column, there was a name, same address and “causing the body to be buried”. I believe that means someone not related who is arranging the funeral. What would this generally mean? If their address was the same, I can only think maybe the man, who was aged 65, was living in a care home or something? Surely if the address of the informant was the same as the man, it would have their relationship, even if a lodger / friend etc.

Thanks in advance.

Not entirely sure this is helpful but I had a relative who was born Charlotte Alice May Bloggs. She married Joe Hodges, and both are now deceased.*
She always used the name May Hodges and her death certificate says May Hodges, otherwise Charlotte Alice May Hodges.

*not their actual names

SingaporeSlinky · 30/01/2024 13:08

He died in 1949

I would understand a woman’s other names, with marriage etc. Or even in the above example, if he used a middle name or different first name.
But this is, say, John Frederick Smith, otherwise Jones. So only the surname is different.

Place of death says General Hospital. I’m trying to look up the address to see if it’s some sort of home but no luck so far. I can’t find him in the 1939 register and he wasn’t listed with his wife and children.

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LIZS · 30/01/2024 13:22

Could the other address have been an asylum or home for injured servicemen etc?

lumpfy · 30/01/2024 13:22

"John Smith otherwise Jones" means that he used those two surnames at the time of his death. Might even have documents in the two different names. If it was a previously-used name, it would say "formerly known as".

You're right that "causing the body to be buried" means that someone who is not a relative is organising the funeral. So he had no living relatives to register the death, or at least none that would do it (e.g. if he was estranged.) Don't forget that non-married partners are not considered to be legal relatives irrespective of the length of the relationship - so might the person who registered the death have been a partner? Otherwise, as you say, it could be the care home manager if he lived in one.

RoseAndRose · 30/01/2024 13:27

That's after the founding of the NHS, so it's likely General Hospital is used in the current sense - it would be a hospital, smaller than a big teaching hospital, so probably in a smaller city or large town, and with a pretty full range of services (medical, surgical, emergency etc). Bigger than a cottage hospital (which wouldn't have the full range, not a casualty/emergency department) and things like convalescent homes and long stay geriatrics would (probably) have been separate then.

You did have more doctors and nurses living on-site in those days, in messes, nurses' homes and occasionally apartment blocks)

SingaporeSlinky · 30/01/2024 13:28

I can’t find anything unusual for the address, looks like a residential one because it’s come up in a list of burials (for one other person), years earlier, and for one pupil on a school honours list.

Assuming I have the right person (and it’s a very uncommon surname) he should be married, but for every census I have seen, he wasn’t at home with his wife, and she lived and died at her address. They had at least 2 children together too. It’s very odd.

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LIZS · 30/01/2024 13:42

Are the mentions of the address at a similar time? Maybe look at street view to see whether it has been redeveloped or converted?

lumpfy · 30/01/2024 13:47

So if his wife didn't register his death & she was still alive at the time, that suggests they were estranged. Perhaps he moved out, changed his name and started a new life under that name.

Have you looked at the census using his "otherwise" surname to see who else was living with him at that address?

FoulWrinkledWitch · 30/01/2024 13:57

SingaporeSlinky · 30/01/2024 12:48

I ordered a number of death certificates for my ancestors yesterday. One is puzzling me and googling is only helping a little.

The man’s name (for example) is listed as John Smith, otherwise Jones. Does this mean he had an alias, or perhaps one was his official name and one was a step-father’s surname or something else?

Also, he died in hospital, his address was given, and under the informant column, there was a name, same address and “causing the body to be buried”. I believe that means someone not related who is arranging the funeral. What would this generally mean? If their address was the same, I can only think maybe the man, who was aged 65, was living in a care home or something? Surely if the address of the informant was the same as the man, it would have their relationship, even if a lodger / friend etc.

Thanks in advance.

Could he have changed his name by deed poll? I have an ancestor whose father changed their surname by DP when he was a child, but some twenty years later when he married he was recorded on the marriage certificate as 'Joe Bloggs (original name) otherwise Joe Smith (new name)'.

SingaporeSlinky · 30/01/2024 14:08

I’m going to have to give this one a rest for now. His whole life is puzzling me and I’m at a brick wall with it. I’ve searched for the actual surname, the otherwise surname, and the informant surname and nothing for that address. But of course a lot could have changed between the 1939 Register and post war 1949. His son got married in 1946 and father was listed as deceased, which again adds to the mystery. Either they were estranged - which sort of explains why he wasn’t living with his wife, and why he had another surname and no relatives as death informants. Or I’ve got the wrong man. But then whoever this man is, I’m still none the wiser.

Thanks for suggestions so far.

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SingaporeSlinky · 30/01/2024 15:43

The only other thing I have to go on under occupation was ‘a greenkeeper, works institute’
I wonder if this means workhouse?

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LIZS · 30/01/2024 15:45

Might be, or might be a building related to or funded by a particular industry like a Miners club, Working men's club or Railway Workers Convalescent home

SingaporeSlinky · 30/01/2024 16:35

Thank you.
After a bit more digging I’ve found that the informant lady was actually buried in the same grave plot 25 years later, along with a man with her surname (possibly husband) and I’ve found her birth record under her maiden name. I still can’t find a connection between them all, but she was about 15 years younger than my ancestor.

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AdaColeman · 30/01/2024 17:32

I think "a greenskeeper works institute" probably refers to a sports club/association belonging to a large employer, or a trade union. The Civil Service had several of these establishments, including cricket pitches and rugby grounds, some companies had bowling greens or running tracks.

There might be competitions involving different company branches, or days out for the employees to enjoy sports.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 30/01/2024 17:36

Sounds similar to a man I had on a tree I did - he did a disappearing act during the war. Wife told their children he'd died (that was very common for abandoned women to do to lessen/avoid the shame). He cropped up years later having used a false name in the intervening period. He lived as man and wife with another woman who obviously knew he'd changed his name as she gave both names when he died.

SingaporeSlinky · 30/01/2024 18:09

Ooh that’s a possibility. With the 1939 register being the last information available, the war could have changed everything. Maybe that’s why the son said his father was deceased. On the son’s birth certificate, the father was listed as a reservist (1915) and tram conductor. On the wife’s death record, she is listed as widow of, and his occupation was munition worker.

I really need to see this man’s marriage certificate but don’t want another £11 expense.

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