Confusion over actual father of Great Grandfather

[longandwindingcountrylanes]

I posted on here yesterday about my GGG and confusion over the father of her 1st born son. At time of birth, she was married but left father details blank on son's birth cert, then named totally different man as the father on baptism record.

When son grew up and married, he name his mum's husband as his father on marriage record. This was at the same church where he was baptised, and where the other name had been named as his father.

How can I unpick all this? I mean, how can I decipher which of the man was the father? I feel at an impasse with my family tree because the husband of my GGG (and where our family name originated), might not actually by father of my Great Grandfather.

Any way of find out more? I have no living relatives who could help shed any light. I've sent for my Ancestry DNA test (in case of any matches linked to either man - at least then I'd know for certain), but that will most likely take a long time to come back. I believe the DNA Ancestry tests are taking a while to be processed at the moment.

Any other ideas?

From the information you have I think it is likely the other man was the father. However, you can't really be sure. I think a lot of family lines come to the end like that with illegitimacy, although usually the family name still continues via the unmarried mother. My own family name line comes to a halt on the father's side with an illegitimate child. I even think I know who the father is, but I can't be sure so I can only continue up the mother's side.

One thing that you could try checking are the papers from around the time. If there was a scandal there might have been reports in the paper.

I think DNA is your best bet here. But don't forget that any matches descended from the mother might also have the father's DNA and Ancestry won't break that down for you. What you really need to look for is matches descended from his mother but not via him.

DNA might show matches already in the company databases but in can also muddy the waters. I have a similar situation where someone matches as my 2nd or 3rd cousin but our trees don't overlap at all. However a maternal ancestor of mine was living with her family within 3 streets of one of my "cousins" ancestors and family. In theory we should share g or gg grandparents in this area? I think there was a relationship, she fell pregnant but married someone else my g or gg grandpa. But I dont have other dna descendent matches to be absolutely certain.

I’d go by baptism record above all. People back then we’re unlikely to lie to God.

I have illegitimate family members from then. It can be difficult. We’ve commonly had the child keep the mothers surname in the records.

My family were strict strict Methodists. They 100% lied to God in baptism records.

I have official records which absolutely tell a different story to the truth. And my grandma and great grandma both affirmed the actual story and kept all the correspondence from that time.

Sometimes it's too hard to unpick from official records. Good luck!

I think because the baptism record is the surprising one, in terms of it was likely to bring disgrace (different father), then this is most likely the correct one. I can't see why they would have done it if it wasn't true. The only thing would be if she was lying about the father to try and stay with the other man, or if she genuinely didn't know herself who was the father.

@ShowOfHands

My family were strict strict Methodists. They 100% lied to God in baptism records.

I have official records which absolutely tell a different story to the truth. And my grandma and great grandma both affirmed the actual story and kept all the correspondence from that time.

Sometimes it's too hard to unpick from official records. Good luck!

Those who do lie to God, would have lied by putting the woman’s husband as the father on the baptism records then. People don’t lie to make up an adultery, mortal sin scandal where none exists. They lie to hide it.

The fact a man who was not her husband was listed as the father in the baptism record, makes it very likely that is true/ what the mother believed.

DNA. I've just managed to prove that the lodger in one census record was the father of my grandfather even though it wasn't recorded on any official documents.

I've discovered dozens of genetic matches to other family members of this lodger so it's definitive.

@JulesRimetStillGleaming
Wow
How long ago was this? You’re not talking about DNA from long dead people I presume?

[quote EmpressCixi]@JulesRimetStillGleaming
Wow
How long ago was this? You’re not talking about DNA from long dead people I presume?[/quote]

Kind of.

I took the DNA test and then Ancestry matches you with other people who are genetically related and tells you who your common ancestors are if both parties have done their family tree.

My great grandfather died in 1926 but because I am genetically related to people who are descended from his grandfather (and can be proved via family trees) then he must've been my great grandfather.

My grandfather didn't know his father and he isn't on the birth certificate but this process proves that he was the father.

DNA is very helpful in these cases!

My gt grandmother was illegitimate although you wouldn't know it looking at her birth certificate - her mother and father have the same surname so appear to be a married couple. They were also on the census with the same surname. But I couldn't find a marriage for them, or a birth for him.
The waters were muddied further by her marriage certificate naming a father with a different first name.

After a lot of digging around with newspaper reports, looking at family connections of witnesses on marriage certificates, occupations on censuses etc I figured out who the father really was. Turns out he was already married and so was going by my gt gt grandmother's surname on these records.

Ancestry DNA has confirmed this as I am related to a lot of people descended from his parents.

Also, does the child have any unusual middle names? (On actual birth registration rather than the baptism) I have seen 2 cases of illegitimate babies where the real father's surname was a middle name.

Do you have a male relative who would be a direct descendant of the ggg? If so, they could learn about their male line with a FamilyTreeDNA Y dna test.
Otherwise you will need to work it out my finding connections in your ancestry matches.