Any detectives about?

[NoodleNuts]

I have been stuck with my GGMother for about 15 years now, I hoped the 1921 census might shed some light but it hasn't really If anyone can find this lady (or her birth family) prior to her marriage in 1880, I would be eternally grateful! The info I have is as follows:

1921 (Oct): Eliza ROBERTS married Edwin Adams in Wolstanton, Staffs. Eliza of full age, father John AMISON, potter.

1921 (Jun census): Eliza ROBERTS, widow age 60yrs 5 mths, born Middlesbrough, Yorkshire, living with daughter Emily in Chesterton, Staffs

1911 (census): Eliza ROBERTS, age 50, born England. Living with husband Edward Roberts and 5 of their kids in Knutton, Staffs

1901 (census): Elizabeth ROBERTS, age 41, born Millsburg Yorkshire. Living with Edward and 8 of their kids in Wolstanton, Staffs

1891 (census): Eliza ROBERTS, age 32, born in Yorkshire. Living with Edward and 6 kids in Burslem, Staffs.

1888 (child's birth cert) says Eliza Roberts formerly AMISON

1880 (Nov, marriage cert) Eliza AMSON age 19 m Edward Roberts in Burslem, Staffs. Father John Amson, Fireman

I can't find her in 1881, 1871 or 1861. There are no clues in the wedding witnesses, no potential relative living next door on the census, Any ideas anyone?

Ooo this a hard one. Have been looking. Found nothing yet.

This has perked me up as I recover from my covid booster!

Apologies if you have already found and discounted these but putting them up in case anything rings a bell as worthy of further investigation.

This census record interested me because of the pottery connection and the elizabeth is the right ages and born in england, as was her father. Spelling a little off but that's common!

John Ditton Aimson b 1831 england listed as a pottery kiln man in Bo'ness Scotland in 1871.
Married to Elizabeth b 1827 Glasgow.
Children John b 1869 Bo'ness, Sarah 1857 england, elizabeth b 1861 england and Helen Ditton b1871 Bo'ness.

I found Helen's birth record in 1870 and her mother's maiden name was smith.

I also found a John Amison baptised 1835 in Lartington which isn't far from Middlesbrough. It was a catholic baptism which may explain difficulties with records?

Good luck with your search- I know how frustrating brick walls can be.

Thanks Bobbobbobbing, that has given me something to look at. I have been searching for years and every now and then, I have another crack at it, usually with no joy. I will check out your info.

At least the 1921 census gave me Middlesbrough as place of birth, which is what I had suspected given the Millsburg in 1901 (which doesn't exist), but it hasn't really helped in so far as I still can't find Eliza/beth! Perhaps she landed from an alien space ship in 1880

What are the names of the witnesses on the marriage?
Is it possible that John died in her childhood and her mother remarried so had a different surname?

I have several of the landed by alien spaceship ones in my family tree

Forgot to say- one reason the RC baptism was interesting was because that John's mother was called Eliza and names often get passed down in families.

There is an Eliza Annison in the 1871 in the right area (Stoke) but she is a year or two too young

Oh sorry didn't spot the Middlesbrough bit

I am sure you have looked at every possible avenue already but the following marriage took place on the same day in the same church as your Eliza Amson. They have different fathers but there must be a good chance they are cousins or similar?

Name: Ellen Amson
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Single
Age: 19
Birth Date: 1861
Marriage Date: 7 Nov 1880
Marriage Place: St. Paul'S, Burslem, Stafford, England
Father: Thos. Amson
Spouse: George Birch

What are Edward and Eliza's occupations on the marriage certificate?

Do you have Edward's line going further back?

Could this be John - same place as marriage

Oh, and what addresses are on the marriage certificate?

2 different results from the GRO database. It has the right name although birthplace is Stoke where she was married rather than Yorkshire.

AMISON, ELIZA BRANDRICK

GRO Reference: 1862 J Quarter in STOKE UPON TRENT Volume 06B Page 219
AMISON, ELIZA SMITH

GRO Reference: 1863 D Quarter in STOKE UPON TRENT Volume 06B Page 191

Lots for me to look into, thank you all!

• I have Edward's line going back with no problem (well, as few problems as you can have with a common name like Roberts!)

• Witnesses on the 1880 marriage were John Taylor and Mary Jane Taylor. Residence at time of marriage os recorded as Burslem for both Edward and Eliza. Occupation is a miner for Edward and blank for Eliza.

• I hadn't seen the marriage on the same day in 1880 so thanks for that, it's definitely worth investigating!

Residence at time of marriage os recorded as Burslem for both Edward and Eliza

No more detail than that? Have you looked through the whole of the returns for Burslem for 1881?

@NoodleNuts I love a mystery! I've also discovered that the place of birth as shown on the census is not always to be relied on, even when it is on severalrunning.

Thinking about the several different spellings, I did this search 'AMSON Eliza' with birth date anywhere between 1857-1863, whole country, with phonetic search surnames turned on. Found this on FreeBMD:

AMIESON Eliza born June Q 1862, StokeT, 6b 219

The Amson surname is very uncommon and it looks like it is centred around Cheshire and Lancashire. There are very few births for a John.

Rather than trying to trace her backwards, have you tried looking for the rest of the family in 1881 using a phonetic surname search? Anyone at all with the head of the household as a John.

@NoodleNuts

Lots for me to look into, thank you all!

• I have Edward's line going back with no problem (well, as few problems as you can have with a common name like Roberts!)

• Witnesses on the 1880 marriage were John Taylor and Mary Jane Taylor. Residence at time of marriage os recorded as Burslem for both Edward and Eliza. Occupation is a miner for Edward and blank for Eliza.

• I hadn't seen the marriage on the same day in 1880 so thanks for that, it's definitely worth investigating!

John & Mary Jane Taylor could be related - perhaps Mary Jane is a sister or cousin under her married name.

I think Mary Jane Taylor was Edwards sister - she married John Taylor in 1880.

The marriage cert just has Burslem, no other info but yes, I have spent many hours trawling through the whole census for Burslem, it sent me cross eyed at times . I couldn't see anything unless they were either on one of the illegible pages or the names have been recorded completely wrongly.

@NoodleNuts

I think Mary Jane Taylor was Edwards sister - she married John Taylor in 1880.

The marriage cert just has Burslem, no other info but yes, I have spent many hours trawling through the whole census for Burslem, it sent me cross eyed at times . I couldn't see anything unless they were either on one of the illegible pages or the names have been recorded completely wrongly.

That marriage is in the registration district of Wolstanton though, so it might be worth widening your search of the 1881 census to the areas around Burslem as well as Burslem itself.

It's difficult, DH's potteries ancestors are being elusive as well!

Edward has a sister called Mary Jane on the 1861 census, so I think you're right that Mary Jane Taylor is his sister - she married John Taylor at the the same church on 2/8/1880, her father was also John Roberts. The witnesses were Edward Roberts and Eliza ?Hamison (looks like this - definitely an H at the beginning).

Eliza didn't sign the register (it's shown as "her mark") so it's possible that surnames got mistranscribed / written as they sounded, so
it's worth looking for Elizas / Elizabeths registered in the Middlesbrough area that could fit (although that relies on Middlesbrough being correct).

Worth remembering that often the place of residence at the time of marriage was marked down as the same for both bride and groom because that was the cheapest way to do it - so it doesn't necessarily mean that both of them were living in Burslem although that is what is listed on the marriage certificate.

I've been having a look too - very intriguing. I haven't really got any new information though. The Amison name seems to be heavily centred around Stoke without anyone in Middlesborough so my feeling is that Middlesborough is a red herring. Also because her father is marked as a potter for the later marriage and I would guess Fireman (his occupation on earlier marriages) is in the potteries too rather than on a fire engine, which would mean he is likely to be working in Stoke.

I was also think fireman as in firing pottery - it must have been a skilled job knowing how to load the kiln and ensuring that the pottery was fired safely.