Tips when no marriage record, so no maiden name?

[Rannva]

Census is decent, shows the couple I'm after in 1891, 1901 and 1911. Names all spelled the same, years all correct - model citizens! Burial records easy to find, only died in the 1920s-40s, Dad even helpfully pops up on a couple of the kids' wedding certificates.

Issue is, cannot find the marriage record between them at all. It's possibly one from 1881 with an obscured/illegible spouse - Familysearch helpfully suggests that Peter may have married William or John - but doesn't offer an option to look.

Nothing in the Lancashire records either.

Any tips for hitting this kind of wall? Without a maiden name I'm a bit stuck doing her line any further. Alas, her name's Mary.

No parents or other family members living with them in later censuses? I am happy to have a look for you if you like. You can PM names and dates if you don't want to post here. Happy to try and help.

Well, obviously her name's Mary.

If her birthplace is small enough, I have occasionally had success in looking at all the women with that first name born approximately that year. Not helpful if birthplace is given as a major city, mind... and now I look again I see that she was born after Civil Registration came in so the free on-line index will only give you vague areas anyway.

No chance of "cousin" or anything in any censuses?

Baptism records if you know where she was likely to have been living as a child? Many people stayed close to their birthplace for most of their lives.

Free BMD.

Search using the information you know - if you look at the 1911 census it should tell you how long they have been married, allowing you to calculate an approximate year of marriage.

Then go to Free BMD and search for a William Harper (or whatever) marrying a Mary and leave her surname blank. For the years, search across a couple of years, there will be a few hits depending on how unusual the surname is.

Look down the list to identify the possibles in the area you know they lived in. Click on the page number and it will show the names of the people on that page.

The only issue is that with such a common name, there may still be more than one possibility for a Mary X marrying a William Harper. But you can still note down all the possible maiden names to search the 1881 or 1871 census. And there's the option to order up the certificates to make sure you've got the right one (by checking William's occupation, address, father's name etc)

Or, you could order up one of the birth certificates for one of the children.

The mother should be listed as something like Mary WINTERS formerly SMITH.

They had children? Child's birth certificate will give you the mother's maiden name.

You still might not find the marriage, mind you - voice of experience.

Oh, and be aware that if you search for [William Harper] marrying Mary you may well get nothing useful. Search for [William Harper] and look at all the names that come up as on the same page. Prior to about 1912 the BMD index doesn't include spouse's name so you'll just get a list.

Great if only one couple married in that quarter, not so good if eight of them did because there will be at least two Marys in that and you'll have to search censuses for all the other men (some of whom have died in the intervening seven years) to see who their wives are.

@DameAlyson

They had children? Child's birth certificate will give you the mother's maiden name.

You still might not find the marriage, mind you - voice of experience.

Indeed.

Lots of people having babies and saying they are wives when they aren't.

@merryhouse

Oh, and be aware that if you search for [William Harper] marrying Mary you may well get nothing useful. Search for [William Harper] and look at all the names that come up as on the same page. Prior to about 1912 the BMD index doesn't include spouse's name so you'll just get a list.

Great if only one couple married in that quarter, not so good if eight of them did because there will be at least two Marys in that and you'll have to search censuses for all the other men (some of whom have died in the intervening seven years) to see who their wives are.

But the way Free BMD works is that it lists all the people on the same page of the register - sometimes two marriages, sometimes more. By putting in "Mary" as the spouses name it will only look for results where the name William Harper appears on the same page as someone called Mary. If there's only one Mary listed on the page, that's her. If there's a Mary Ann as well, you'll have to do more digging to find out which one is the spouse.

The GRO website gives the mother’s maiden name for all birth records, so if you have the name, year and registration district you should get some possible matches. Remember it’s registration rather than birth so someone born in Dec could be registered in the first quarter of the following year. FreeBMD has a good list of registration districts too, as some places moved into different districts over the years. Good luck!

Oops …that should say name, year and registration district of one of their children.

Thanks all, FreeBMD I had No clue about, but there she is! Page 313, same volume as Peter, no idea why FamilySearch couldn't clock it but there we go.

Thanks ever so much, got loads to be getting on with now - and a new toy as well :)

Crikey, £11 for a copy certificate? Got the volume/numbers and stuff. Trying to find a father's name in order to pin down which of the 9 Mary Surnames born in that town she is.

Can they be viewed for free anywhere if I go to the library?

Not as far as I know with English/Welsh records. Just the indexes, which is what you already have seen on free BMD. Scottish records are all digitised and it costs to see them in full, around £1.50 in credits per record.

Unfortunately you sometimes have to bite the bullet and order the certificate from the GRO, especially when you're dealing with a common name in a large area of possibility. You should be able to narrow down your possibilities by looking census records to give you an age.

The marriage certificate - if you have identified the right one - is worth purchasing as it will have the fathers' names listed on it too, and their occupations. That should help you find your Mary on previous censuses.

@Rannva

Crikey, £11 for a copy certificate? Got the volume/numbers and stuff. Trying to find a father's name in order to pin down which of the 9 Mary Surnames born in that town she is.

Can they be viewed for free anywhere if I go to the library?

The parish record might be available to view in the appropriare county records office. I have a subscription to find my past and ancestry and would be happy to see if the parish record is on there. You could send me a message with the details. I love looking up other people's family history, so it's no trouble.