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Genealogy

Research sources suggestion *triggering*

70 replies

WeatherwaxOn · 12/02/2021 16:24

I've been researching my late Dad's side of the family and have traced the family back to the 1800s.
In the mid/late 1800s were three deaths in the same family; father and two adult sons. Two were violent suicides and one an alleged accident.
The family lived in Barley and in Royston so some records in Cambs., and some in Herts.
I have death certs for all 3 - father 1867, sons 1873. However although all 3 required inquests the documents don't seem to exist for the two definite suicides. I have a transcript of the alleged accidental death.
The two suicides were in Cambs, and their archives don't have surviving inquest copies that date back this far.
I have looked in FindMyPast with no luck, but their coverage can be hazy/mistranscribed.
I was (gruesomely) hoping to find some more information from the time. Would old newspapers have carried info?

I have a short newspaper item about the accidental death which references the man's brother committing suicide 5 days previously in the next village, which came under Herts.
It seems that the brother who committed suicide in 1873 was in the workhouse, but again I can't seem to find anything.

The reason for my interest is that one of my uncles suffered badly with depression and I suspect it may be an inherent family trait.

OP posts:
WeatherwaxOn · 31/03/2021 18:24

Thanks contrary . There was a Jabez in the family so I wonder if this was a transcription error. No connection to Cornwall with this family to my knowledge. I'll have another look at the birth records.

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contrary13 · 02/04/2021 15:10

@WeatherwaxOn -

I did a little bit of further research into the name 'Javy', because - well, in my "real life" I'm an archaeologist/historical researcher. I've read a lot of old documents, and whilst Wm, Chas, and Jas are well known to me (William, Charles, and James, as I'm sure you well know! Grin ), 'Javy? Never seen it before. However...

Might there have been a Xavier in the family? Or even a Javier (a Castillian ancestor who fell in love with/got stranded upon these shores having arrived on a trading ship, perhaps...)? 'Javy' is a recognised shortening for 'Javier', whilst the Anglicised version of it is 'Xavier'.

Your family mystery taught a total stranger something new... and I thank you for that!

ToffeeNotCoffee · 02/04/2021 15:32

It looks like Gary to me.

Jabez is an old biblical name. Hebrew translation, 'he causes pain.' He may have had a difficult birth or maybe his mother died in childbirth.

(I love all this. I'm doing my own family history/ancestry. I've found out some extraordinary things. Pretty normal lives at the time but looking back now. Wow. I'm within ten years of finding my great Grandfather's death certificate. I hope. That's my, 'holy grail' document. Unless he changed his name or died overseas.)

Like a PP, I can't wait until the 1921 census is published in January next year. Too bad the 1931 census was destroyed in a fire and lost forever. So, twenty years until the 1941 census can be published. There is the 1939 register which is useful.

ConquestEmpireHungerPlague · 02/04/2021 16:03

Noooooo! Really? The 1931 census was destroyed?? That's gutting. It's gutting generally, but I was particularly holding out for that one to try and get some purchase on the mystery of a missing baby in my family, who was born in 1924 but for whom no death record exists. He's not on the 1939 register but would have been 15 by then so might reasonably have, say, moved away to work, gone into service etc. After that, there's the war, and who knows what. If he'd been absent from the 1931 census it would have greatly reduced the time window and geographical radius in which to double down on searching for evidence that he died as a child.

Not to make things worse @ToffeeNotCoffee, but I think there's no 1941 census because of the war.

ToffeeNotCoffee · 02/04/2021 18:13

@ConquestEmpireHungerPlague
I had a sneaking suspicion that would be the case re:1941 census.

I may be wrong about the1931 census but that is my understanding.

The baby born in 1924 who you can't find a death certificate matching those details could he have been adopted ? Maybe not as 15 was a working age. Might have been a name change.

I found out recently, after the fact, that my Grandmother had a sibling that died in infancy. I even know where infant siblings' remains are. I will pay for the birth certificate one day and the death certificate as I wonder what tragedy befell that baby.

Did she know about it ? Who knows ?

WeatherwaxOn · 02/04/2021 18:25

@ToffeeNotCoffee

It looks like Gary to me.

Jabez is an old biblical name. Hebrew translation, 'he causes pain.' He may have had a difficult birth or maybe his mother died in childbirth.

(I love all this. I'm doing my own family history/ancestry. I've found out some extraordinary things. Pretty normal lives at the time but looking back now. Wow. I'm within ten years of finding my great Grandfather's death certificate. I hope. That's my, 'holy grail' document. Unless he changed his name or died overseas.)

Like a PP, I can't wait until the 1921 census is published in January next year. Too bad the 1931 census was destroyed in a fire and lost forever. So, twenty years until the 1941 census can be published. There is the 1939 register which is useful.

No Gary's in the family - Josephs, Johns, Benjamins, Jabez' and Abrahams. :)

Mother lived on after he was born for some time. Like you I'm desperate for the '21 census to come out to see if I can then backfill based on that information. I'm still frustrated that some of the workhouses my family would have been in (and therefore may have been traceable from) didn't keep records/records have been lost.

OP posts:
ConquestEmpireHungerPlague · 02/04/2021 18:52

The baby born in 1924 who you can't find a death certificate matching those details could he have been adopted ? Maybe not as 15 was a working age. Might have been a name change.

I strongly suspect he died in early childhood, it's just there doesn't seem to be a record even though I've tried all the variants and wildcards I can possibly come up with. I know a lot about the family and think adoption is vanishingly unlikely, but one possibility is a very disabled child who went into an institution. It frustrates me greatly. Everyone who might know is dead now.

There are so many sad stories once you start digging into family history. Not so many happy ones, it seems, but perhaps that's just my impression.

contrary13 · 02/04/2021 18:58

@ConquestEmpireHungerPlague - I might have an idea re: your missing baby in '24... he could have been placed with another family, perhaps as an informal adoption, who would have changed his name (well, his surname at least) and probably not told him about the circumstances of his birth/how he came to be "Joe Bloggs" and not "Joseph Doe".

My grandfather (born in 1918, so a bit earlier) had an older sister whom no one in the family knew anything about until maybe 10 years ago. I have her birth certificate, she is definitely my great-grandmother's child, born in the family home... but placed with another family. There are no adoption papers, and the only reason we know anything about her is because her grandson turned up on Ancestry DNA as related to me and between us we worked it all out. Even on her marriage certificate, she's registered as having the "other family's" surname - but the first names my great-grandmother gave her, simply switched around. In the Census taken when she was a baby, she's shown as living with the "other family" under her birth name, though. Sometimes there were difficult circumstances surrounding conception/birth, sometimes there were simply too many mouths to feed - but I suspect informal adoptions went on a lot more than we actually stop to consider. Sad

ToffeeNotCoffee · 02/04/2021 19:31

Good luck.

Sorry for your frustrations regarding workhouse records for that time. I'm kinda, 'lucky' that my Great great grandfather joined the military and I have found his records online.

He joined the military as a cadet. Got chucked out after 2 spells in military jail. Not clear what for, drunk or dishonest I suspect ! Then to my amazement, joins back up at the outbreak of the First World War. He survives the war (kept his head down during several postings to the Western Front).

Marries my Great Grandmother six months after my Grandad was born during the first world war. She became Mrs Great-Grandad but my Grandad assumed his last name as his father is not recorded on his birth certificate. (Yes he's his son.) Then disappears out of both of their lives. By mutual agreement ? 'Missing presumed deceased' is how he is described on my Grandad's marriage certificate twenty five years later.

In the 1920's Great Grandad is in the County Assizes Court on dishonesty charges with his female accomplice (a widow - yes really -whom he married bigamously in the 1940's describing himself as a bachelor) who had assumed his last name as one of her aliases some years previously. One day I will find out what the outcome of the trial was. Probably custodial.

Ten years after their marriage, he dies. She marries again. I will get her third marriage certificate which should describe her as a widow.

So, I will continue to look for his death certificate. Like I say, I am within 10 years of finding it. Unless he went overseas or changed his name.

If great grandad hadn't have been a wrong 'un, I wouldn't have so much information about him !

He had brothers and sisters and I've been able to find a little bit of information about them. I will get more details regarding whether they married, had kids etc. Are there any of their descendants today who knew my great grandad ? Even if he's the family rogue that no one talks about !

ConquestEmpireHungerPlague · 02/04/2021 19:36

Wow, that's quite a story to find in your tree @contrary13! I would have said no way to this, but your reasoning's persuasive, I must say. There were certainly too many mouths to feed. This baby's mother had worked in service before her marriage, so it might be worth me looking more closely at her employer, for instance. There was a lot of extended family on her side too, as her family had lived in the same village for generations, so heaps of siblings and cousins etc. Great to have a new approach to try, so thanks for the idea. Of course, this is precisely why it would have been good if the 1931 census hadn't gone up in flames!

Sorry, we've hijacked your thread @WeatherwaxOn.

ToffeeNotCoffee · 02/04/2021 19:37

Not my great great grandad, my great grandad. You probably realised that.

WeatherwaxOn · 02/04/2021 20:39

^Feel free to hijack - family history's fascinating!

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seriousandloyal · 02/04/2021 20:44

On the census I read the name as 'Davy'. Really interesting thread OP.

CMSdividend · 02/04/2021 20:49

I haven't read the whole thread but I love Royston way (Herts). There is also a Royston in Barnsley so make sure it's the right one as we get a lot of northern folk joining our local groups on Facebook.
Which leads me to.... join Royston-Past

www.facebook.com/groups/roystonpast/?ref=share
What they don't know in there isn't worth knowing. Good luck 🤞

CMSdividend · 02/04/2021 20:49

Live not love Hmm

contrary13 · 02/04/2021 21:16

@ConquestEmpireHungerPlague - If your missing baby's mother was in service, then I'd definitely suggest looking more closely at her employer. Perhaps the baby was biologically "the man of the house"'s child and the family took them in? Or you might try to find out if there were any foster parents in the town/village the mother lived in at the time - because you might find the baby there, with them.

My great-grandmother was in service, in the next city over (having been born and raised in a small, rural setting), when suddenly she reappears in her family home, pregnant. She was the youngest daughter, very spoiled (her mother died when she was 7 and her oldest sister raised her and the two boys younger than her, whilst the other siblings either went into service or worked the land alongside their father) and I think undoubtedly out of her depth completely. She has the baby at home, registers the birth a month later, but the baby is placed with a couple in the rural setting who were unofficial foster parents. I don't know if my great-grandmother had any intentions of reclaiming her daughter or not, but the foster parents upped and left the rural setting and... all contact was lost. The baby girl was essentially stolen - but in those days, what could my great-grandmother have done, without drawing attention to the fact that she'd had a baby out of wedlock and disgracing not only herself, but her family, too (hate this fact, but it's sadly true - even in '51 when my mother was born "on the wrong side of the blankets", she was bullied and teased in the same rural setting until she learned to fight back). My great-grandmother goes back into service, working for another couple in a different place - this time an upmarket spa town in Wales.

Roll forwards a couple of years, and she's marrying a man whom she barely knows - my great-grandfather. No clue as to how they met - she was a house maid for a well-to-do family (in a beautiful house, which one day when this pandemic is under control, I intend on marvelling at the outside of in person!), and he was a railway plate layer. However, my great-grandmother was pregnant, so perhaps the haste can be explained. DNA shows that I am connected, albeit distantly so not a direct line, to the well-to-do family my great-grandmother worked for. Yep, the baby that caused her marriage to my great-grandfather... was not his!!! And he knew it. Or suspected it enough to insist that the baby was "given" to her oldest sister (who was already raising two other sisters illegitimate children - the poor woman had two teenagers on her hands and must have been thinking "freedom is in sight...", when she had a legitimate baby thrust into her sole care because he wasn't biologically the child of the man whose name is on his birth certificate!). Within a year, my great-grandmother had another son, whose parentage my great-grandfather must have trusted completely because they kept him. Baby, after baby, after baby came along until my great-grandmother died, giving birth to twins (who also died), aged 43 years old. Living in what was then the "slum" area of Swansea, married to a man who according to my grandfather (the middle child of 9) lived up to the cliches of a miner. He drank, he cheated on her, he beat her and the boys until they were old enough to defend themselves. My grandfather rarely spoke about his parents, but he did tell me about his mother's death and a few other bits when I was growing up (and undoubtedly too young to hear them, but he probably thought I'd forget what he said, because I was too young - so a safe outlet for him). His then-oldest sister was 17 when my great-grandmother died, and she took on the care of a 5 and a 3 year old. Just like her aunt had taken on the care of her mother and uncles.

One of the fostered out daughter's sons came knocking on my grandmother's door shortly after the headstone had gone up on my grandfather's grave (which he shares with their son, who died at 6 days old). The inscription sort of implies that my grandmother was a childless widow and, at the time - never having heard anything about this woman - everyone thought this man was simply after my grandmother's money. Which wasn't entirely baseless as he conned thousands out of my grandfather's youngest sister within the next two years... Angry It was the DNA and the fact that one of the man's nephews, the missing daughter's grandson, turned up as a cousin, however, that actually made me sit back and have a "woah!" moment.

I hate to think it, but I suspect my great-grandmother may have been raped, and this missing daughter - the only illegitimate child in that immediate family to have been placed outside of the family - was the result. Something awful must have happened for my great-grandmother's sister not to have taken her in. And then my great-grandmother moved to another town, another place in service... and again, gets pregnant, marries someone who wasn't the baby's father - and has no recourse once he realised this fact. She couldn't afford to divorce. Her life was horrible once he changed jobs and moved the family miles away from everyone she knew, her family, the two older sisters who would have been her support bubble (to borrow new terminology). Their children all hated him. The boys joined the Army as soon as they were able to (my grandfather was 14 when he signed up) and the oldest daughter married at 16 to - as she once told me - "get away from [her father] and his fists".

But yes; informal adoptions happened. In my family's case, the missing daughter was loved, well-cared for and happy - which is the main thing. She also never knew that she'd been adopted, according to her grandson, it was only the DNA testing which has joined her children (apart from the conman - but he was already estranged from his own siblings prior to any of this, so definitely not a nice man) and descendants back into the fold of her biological mother's family. No clue (yet...) as to who might have fathered her, though. That's our next hunt, but as you'll know, it takes time, hunches kicking in, sheer blind luck sometimes for connections to be made.

Sorry @WeatherwaxOn... Flowers

ConquestEmpireHungerPlague · 03/04/2021 00:40

@contrary13

If your missing baby's mother was in service, then I'd definitely suggest looking more closely at her employer. Perhaps the baby was biologically "the man of the house"'s child and the family took them in? Or you might try to find out if there were any foster parents in the town/village the mother lived in at the time - because you might find the baby there, with them.

No, I don't think so, though it's a valid thought. She'd been in service before she married, but had been married 7 years by the time this one was born and he was her fourth child. I wouldn't have known about him except she had one every two years like clockwork and there was a big gap between the one in 1922 and the one in 1926, and I just thought...I wonder. So I did a wildcard search for the surname and maiden name and this extra baby came up I hadn't known about. But I very much doubt he was illegitimate, though her old employers might have helped just because they were wealthier perhaps.

But what I do wonder is if he was disabled and they farmed him out to a childless relative who had less on their plate. Having traced back further in the line, I know there was some, ahem, consanguinity, and some health problems in the family as a result, so a disability is perhaps even more likely than just the average risk in the pre-obstetrics era. But equally of course raises the risk that he did die young. The lack of a death record is puzzling though, and I've been through parish records as well as bmd, as I know a lot about the particular parish for other reasons. I guess they did get lost occasionally but it's 1924 not 1724, so I am a bit bemused by it.

Thanks for your thoughts on it. Some fresh input is always a help. Smile

contrary13 · 03/04/2021 10:21

@ConquestEmpireHungerPlague - I'm glad I might have been some help to you. I know that when I've hit brick walls in research, sometimes it takes a comment from someone else for me to go "hmm..." and head off in a different direction to one I'd ever have thought of taking - and breaking through the wall.

My grandparents on the same side as above - so the son of the great-grandmother - were cousins. My grandfather was the first cousin of my grandmother's father. He's not my mother's biological father (a whole other tree headache in and of itself, because to all extents and purposes he was my grandfather, and a wonderful one, yet biologically he was just a distant cousin to me!). Their first child together died at 6 days old (horribly, by himself in Birmingham's Children's Hospital, having been rushed there hours after a traumatic - premature - birth) from holes in his heart. Their next two children also have congenital heart defects, although theirs weren't picked up until later. So consanguity can be a bitch... Sad

Might your missing baby have been placed into an institution, rather than farmed out to relatives? Or do you suspect a previously childless couple who suddenly have a son? Or could he even be like my oldest maternal uncle? It took years before anyone other than my grandparents really knew what had happened to him - and then, only because my mother mentioned having been with my grandfather at the telephone box refusing to allow him to have an operation that might have "fixed" him... she said - at my grandfather's funeral - that her step-father had refused to countenance having a son in a wheelchair. It was the late '50s and thoughts on disabilities were undoubtedly very different then - but also, as a parent (and this may sound awful, but my disclaimer is that I'm disabled due to a genetic neurological condition) I can see where my grandfather was coming from. My uncle would have been pitied in their small rural setting and made to feel completely abnormal throughout his life. So he refused a potentially life-saving operation and my baby uncle died alone in a hospital miles from the rural setting in which he'd been born. It took a long time for me to find his death certificate, too. So there may well be one out there, lurking nefariously, waiting for you to find it yet. Try a different angle and see what you turn up...

ConquestEmpireHungerPlague · 03/04/2021 11:17

Oh no, what a sad story @contrary13! I've wondered about institutions and distant hospitals, tbh. I haven't found anything yet, but the paper trail is much less obvious and many (most?) institutions for disabled children have closed and not necessarily kept records, so nothing yet, but I'll keep at it.

Your family tree must be a very complicated thing on paper!

WeatherwaxOn · 03/04/2021 19:36

Thankyou CMS have applied to join that Royston group.
Another mystery - Benjamin (the one who was in the workhouse and took his own life) got married the year before his suicide. The woman he married was a widow, a bit older than him.
She seems to have been married to someone in a local family previously but the only likely marriage for that union took place in London, which seems unusual as the first husband's family were based in/near Barley in Herts.
Can't trace her, even though she had an unusual surname. I can't find any evidence of her after her marriage to Benjamin so whether they both ended up in the workhouse I don't know. Can't find an obvious death record for her as Benjamin's wife, or under her previous surnames.
Hopefully the FB page might turn up some leads.

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