This is a stupid question but I genuinely dont know...can you get a broadband package if your lanline is there but not connected

[Mumof]

cos I now have my brother a laptop and he has a landline to his rented property but its not connected and I cant work out whether a pay as you go mobile dongle is better for him or somehow we can utilise his landline as he uses his mobile for calls iykwim

There's no 'bare ADSL' available, you have to pay line rental on top (partly to cover maintenance of the line in case it needs repairs).

Unfortunately if there are discount schemes (like the old 'Light User Scheme' but I cannot think of the name now - aimed at people eligible for benefits and giving reduced rate line rental, as line is effectively for inbound and emergency calls) then you are barred from having ADSL.

Similarly, there's another 'barred' option (to stop people running up huge debts) which makes the line ineligible for ADSL.

Mobile dongles might be worthwhile (*), but minimum cost is often 10 pounds for 1 GB of traffic (where a landline might be used for 20-40 GB in a month if someone used YouTube or BBC iPlayer or watched TV shows off Channel 4 or Five "on demand". PAYG usually work out more costly than contracts, and there'd probably be a credit check for long term contracts.

Although TalkTalk sometimes gets a bad press, they are doing broadband at 6.49/month (plus their own line rental of 11.50 a month). Might go up with VAT change in new year, and like best mobile deals, there is a contract for 18 or 24 months.

(*) Three was offering 5 GB for 7.50/month in September 2008, but now charge 15 quid for 15 GB (OK, if he has Three coverage, but 18 or 24 month contract).

Finally, there are a couple of "Three" mobile dongle deals which might be worth looking at - would offer longer term access for a one-off fee. 99 quid gets the dongle plus 12 GB of traffic for up to 12 months - expires at the end of that time or when all data used up. You could monitor usage to see if it is going really fast or really slow and then help brother make a better choice for long term access.

Might start slow and build up if he goes to YouTube or other video sites, IYSWIM.

Ooops - forgot second Three dongle deal - I think I saw it at Currys - which was for 24 GB of data.

Incidentally, the 99 quid price is perhaps on the Three website, but I am sure I have seen similar deal for less at Argos, Maplin, or elsewhere. CarphoneWarehouse and John Lewis show the 12 GB 'starter pack' at 79.99 today, and I searched for the 24 GB deal but only found it mentioned with some mobile phone, not separate, so maybe Three has stopped that promo for a while...

There's also a 'starter pack' at 39.99 (3 GB) on the www.e2save.com (web only CarphoneWarehouse shop) if you wanted to try it out - flog the dongle for 15 quid afterwards on Ebay if it is too much hassle with a dongle...

It does depend on a reasonable signal and might need the USB extension cable they provide to get anything at all... so not quite like sat comfy on the sofa with wi-fi link if it only works in one part of the room near the window (not suggesting that's highly likely, but until you have tried it out... you won't know).

Link for TalkTalk is www.talktalk.co.uk/bright

Re Talk Talk, I may be wrong (and am very impressed with webdude!!) but I think you will need to have a BT provided landline and you would need to then pay rental to BT and not another provider.

The TalkTalk brochure I saw recently mentioned a "second line". Some of the telecom firms will get the line installed (by BT Openreach engineers, who are "untied" from working only for BT now). If you just ask to add broadband then some firms require you to have a BT line.

In some areas UK Online (part of what was Easynet, now owned by Sky) would be an option (and they were offering a new line for 79 pounds when I was looking earlier in the year).

Tiscali mentions a 99 pound fee.

Great shame it has only come up as a question because BT was doing free installation until the end of September (admittedly with an 18 month 'rolling' contract).

Just went back to the TalkTalk site and there's a link "Need a new phone line"

www.talktalk.co.uk/newlines

HTH.

Says that it costs 59.99 for a new line (however, to get the broadband there's a further 30 pound setup fee, so nearer to the 99 than 59 end price-wise, but it does all come from the one supplier).

ooh right guys

so once thats installed then he could get a cheap BB package? How cheap could I get him one for for brwsing really

off to investigate thanks again...I will no doubt be back with questions!

Not trying to 'point score', (in case someone glances down the posts) but have no landline myself at present, and have been weighing up the pros and cons of BT vs others for a bit, and had an interest in telecomms for the past 30ish years and the internet for as long as I've had access... since the late 80s!

That TalkTalk deal looks to be one of the cheapest about, to be honest. Many start at 9.99 a month, plus BT line rental of 11ish quid.

If you use www.SamKnows.com and put in your brother's postcode in the 'exchange search' you should see which companies (bottom right, under "LLU") are offering service.

LLU means "local loop unbundling" where you can have a BT line and some other firm for ADSL, or get both line rental and ADSL from some other firm. Be Unlimited/O2 offer deals for existing O2 customers (not sure what network your bro uses) and something similar may be available from Orange (typically they offer a discount on the broadband for their own customers, but some only for contract mobile customers, not PAYG, again not sure...

You might also find www.ThinkBroadband.com worth a look - comparing ISPs and their forum, and www.ISPreview.co.uk for comments about ISPs. Do remember people are more likely to complain about an ISP than praise service.

Would like to add, I don't know how they get away with selling dongles.

We have had a T-Mobile one and a 3G one. Could not view forums like this with either- they couldn't load them.

With he first one we ended up with a £200 bill after a month.

We are still paying for the dongle as we got a free laptop with it, but am paying Sky for unlimited broadband as part of my Sky package.

Well, the dongles cost something (just like mobile phones). Nothing is really "free" but will be covered by some discount and fee for something else, so the "free" laptop is only "bundled" with a contract that helps cover the cost of it, in reality. If it seems too good to be true, then it probably is!

Sorry to read of your large bill - it can clock up on some of these tariffs.

FWIW, have been using Three dongle from home for 10+ months without problems. Not perfect for all locations, admittedly, and Three has a pretty short time window for acceptance (2-3 days before you decide and send back).

I thought T-Mobile had a policy not to charge extra but to cut the speed unless someone is really heavily downloading.

If you could not load websites, beats me how they managed to bill you. Sounds like you should complain and get it investigated by Ofcom or similar.

the landline costs £125 to connect before anything

Yes, that's the standard charge from BT, and many others quote 99 quid (perhaps +VAT?) but as well as the 122.50 (BT setup) BT charges the first quarter (or month) rental in advance.

TalkTalk charges ~60 quid + 30 for setting up broadband, which saves 30 quid.

From time to time BT does offer cheap/ free connection.

In the meantime, does your brother have any neighbours who have a wireless router if so, then while many ISPs would not like it, it might be possible to pay the neighbour a small amount (eg a fiver a month) and use their net connection.

Where I am, I can 'see' between 3 and 6 different routers owned by neighbours, though they are {mostly!} encrypted to prevent external use.

It's not something to do without permission (do something 'formal' with the neighbour, so your bro has a written agreement that he'll pay X pounds and they'll let him access the internet) because without permission it is hacking and some people have been charged - also, if neighbour turned nasty, best to have some note that they agreed to it, just in case - he cannot then be accused of hacking.

They should have a p/w so they'd need to provide him with that, and if they change it he simply stops paying, or if they agree to stop the arrangement they just need to alter p/w to block him.

Obviously, tread carefully - depends on how well one gets on with the neighbours...

unfort no neighbours he knows or that would be a fab idea....

TalkTalk charges ~60 quid + 30 for setting up broadband, which saves 30 quid.

Sorry being dim but they would connect up his landline for £60? and £30 set up broadband costs then I could take a package from them for him?

We had our landline installed when we moved in (new-build) and paid the £100 plus whatever it is.

DH then ran up a £400 bill calling his Mum in Spain to her mobile we did pay it but not before they terminated our contract and disconnected the line.

About 6 months later we realised we need a landline so I called them up and they re-connected it for free - despite disconnecting due to late payment - without any trying on my part, thought it would be hard work. Now we just pay them line rental and the rest to Sky.

We are paying £25 or whatever it is to T-Mobile I think and will do for the rest of the dongle contract till we can cancel it to pay for the lapper - we know we are paying for it in effect - but we couldn't afford to buy one and can't get credit anymore.

Mumof see the TalkTalk link posted earlier - www.talktalk.co.uk/newlines - BT Openreach set the levels of fees for certain jobs and bill the different firms.

Some of the firms pass on the full amount (+ admin) but some absorb part of the cost (for market share or to get it back over 24 months in other areas where they get profits).

It's just like the cost of mobile phones - grab a copy of the Carphone Warehouse brochure and on the back you see prices for dozens of phones on PAYG and then at the bottom there's the 'phone only' price. Something might be 60 quid on Vodafone, 130 without tie to any network. Clearly Voda expects to get something back to cover the difference.

Sorry to read of your situation LofF re credit etc.

thanks guys will keep reading

man youre all clued up I am well thick

but learning

Please don't be sorry.

Just didn't want you to think I am stupid in believing the lapper was free - I know it isn't. I just didn't have to cough up for it at the time.

We got broadband, without a phone line, through Virgin, dont know how it works but I think because it's fibre optic, no line is needed. We pay £15 per month

ooh will look into ta!

If you are in a cabled area, all are now Virgin, previously there were many Cable Companies. I got that installed when I had a flat, as was the cheapest way of getting a phone line. However they don't cover that much of the country... where I live now they cover a nearby town but don't cover my village.

Virgin Media: Check Availability

Virgin has additional installation charges and may charge for Router on low cost packages. Look at the Legal Stuff very carefully.

If your brother has a non crap credit rating virgin might be the way to go. We tried to sign up when we moved but the barstewards wanted £130 as a "deposit" before installing. We told them to do a running jump and went with a mixture of Bt, O2 and sky(who wanted no deposit and gave us a free sky+ box, hurrah for sky).

My mil has a dongle from O2 and tbh it is pants, dp gets better download speeds from his mobile and it regularly cuts out. If your bro is a heavy internet user think you will be better off with proper broadband.

thanks guys

no joy with virgin he isnt it the fibre optic area appara?