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Original poster

What can you find out from a saved image?

101 replies

worriedtohell · 09/08/2012 10:22

Difficult situation at work in which im currently suspended for an ' indecent' image of which i have never seen being found on my pc.

I am a pc user, not a technical person, i think the pc is being looked at, but, for my own knowledge i woiuld like to know:

Can they tell from a saved image, where it came from - ie work spam, FB, deliberatley downloaded?

How reliable are the ' created dates and times' and can they be tampered with?

How does an image end up in the downloads, if it hasnt been downloaded?

Why is none of my actual work in the downloads file, because i do download/ open attachements, but no actual work is in this file.

Thanks

OP posts:
NetworkGuy · 15/08/2012 15:00

So regarding FaceBook, you were supposed to have logged in on the office PC sometime around 09.00 on the day of the investigatory meeting ?

What FB 'activity log' is this (I don't use FB and don't know if anyone can check the activity log of anyone else, without any security checks).

Are you suggesting manager (or someone else) knows how to login as you on FB ?

As for 'may have happened in work time' you should check for yourself to see whether any portion are on days off, and draw their attention to the fact that you use your mobile for FB.

If only people at the office never used the kit for any personal e-mail, FB, Twitter, etc... it is something I've stressed to relatives, not to have friends send anything to an office e-mail account, and for them only to use their own mobile phone, or laptop, or not at all if they would be using office computers... otherwise it leaves people open to accusation.

Sorry, OP, that's just a personal view, that would for 99.9999% of instances, stop any accusations, if one could categorically state 'I never use the office PC for any personal internet use'. I'd hope that after past errors (such as e-mail concerning a date the night before, or nude photos of girl/boy friends, or accusations of using the net in work time) had been highlighted on TV, people would hesitate concerning internet use, even if the workplace 'allows' it.

ClaireRacing · 15/08/2012 19:38

Only you can view your activity log.

NetworkGuy · 15/08/2012 20:18

Thanks.

In that case, if someone guessed the OP's password then anything could be done at any time to "drop her in it"

OK, that is a bit of a conspiracy theory, I know, before anyone moans at me

However, in addition, I think "gross misconduct" on a first "offence" (still limited proof it was the OP anyway) is OTT for just a single "indecent" image - it's hardly a photo of an orgy, after all!

From the sound of it, it's a work environment so there's no children "exposed" to this image, and the OP didn't even know it was on the PC, not having seen it before.

For the OP - I think it does need you to get a copy of this IT person's report and if possible, ask for it to be sent to you by e-mail (which means you could PM one or two posters on this thread to get advice in confidence, seeing as you could forward the e-mail to them, document and all).

If they seem likely to dismiss you, I'd think advice from those in the legal and employment areas of MN may help you. It can be daunting to take them to a tribunal, but it sounds like unfair dismissal to me...

Original poster
worriedtohell · 15/08/2012 21:01

Yes, have had info from other threads re fb.
Apparently in breech of telecommunications act, I should log a greviance and threaten legal action. It's things that can only be seen as logged in as me, printed off from when I was actually in the investagatory meeting. Fb Times out, so Its been hacked.
However, ironically, doesn't show anything, maybe 5 dates where I've done stuff in work Time, it doesn't say if it was via mobile phone, ( which we are allowed to use at work) or pc, so again proves nothing.

Essentially the ' evidence' doesn't show anything, and some contradicts itself.

OP posts:
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 15/08/2012 22:22

Make sure you get a copy of the independent IT persons report prior to the meeting. It is being used as evidence so you have a right to see it in advance and post it on MN so we can laugh at them

Re Facebook, it is unlikely they have hacked it unless you have a very easy to guess password. Do you have the "remember me" box checked?

Original poster
worriedtohell · 15/08/2012 22:38

No, I don't.

OP posts:
HauntedLittleLunatic · 15/08/2012 23:59

I have just been doing something on my external hard-drive. But it has relevance to the original OP, I realise that the case has moved on a bit now but it might add a bit of fore to your counter arguments.

I have some folders containing a range of documents on the PC. I have moved those documents to an external hard drive.

Now when I see the date modified info in windows for each of the folders on my external drive it is showing as todays date. BUT when I open the folders and get to the original files (which in this case are powerpoint files) the date modified is showing as 18/12/2009. Which is clearly not the date they arrived on the external hard drive. (and not even the date they arrived on my laptop)

When I right click on a file (which is what OP says was done) to see the file properties the date created is showing as 29 Aug 2011 and date modified as 18 Dec 2009. Now clearly there is something not quite right as the dates can't fit chronologically but I guess one of the PCs that they have been worked on has had a dodgy timestamp. But to me this proves that in the properties of the file the date created and modified will be the original ones which are logged at point of creation and when it was last opened AND saved. (there is also a last accessed box which is todays date as I have just opened the file).

What I am trying to say that I believe that the date indicated that was created 6m ago is not necessarily the date it was put on your machine. They are likely have been created elsewhere and could have been moved to your PC at any point between then and now.

Honestlt try it. Take an old file. Move it onto a USB stick and then onto a new PC and you will see that it keeps the original "date created".

FannyFifer · 16/08/2012 00:04

How can they get your Facebook log in times? I don't understand that at all.

HauntedLittleLunatic · 16/08/2012 00:15

I've just had a look at my own FB activity log (google it for instructions Fanny).

It does indicate each time I have done something on FB. Many of them tho are accompanied by an indication that I have done it by mobile (unless I am just commenting on someone else).

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/08/2012 09:58

Lunatic the issue is how did someone else access her activity log?

HauntedLittleLunatic · 16/08/2012 10:13

I realise that, but thought it would be useful to add to the list of ineffectual evidence for the overall case.

FannyFifer · 16/08/2012 10:20

My log ins never make sense.
Surely her work would not be able to access Facebook account though, that's what I don't get.

NetworkGuy · 16/08/2012 14:00

Only the OP can determine how easy or difficult her password would be to guess.

All mine have numbers, letters (upper and lower case) and most have some punctuation in, too (unless the website bans that). Nearly every site I use has a unique password, so if that site was 'hacked' then breaking into another site I use won't be as easy as 'just use the same password'

Even if you do use something cryptic (but the same for several sites), I'd urge you to use something unique and hard for banking and e-mail accounts, as the reminder messages about a 'lost password' can get to your e-mail and if that's got the same password as other websites, then potentially your bank a/c can be more vulnerable, and a hacker could change the e-mail site password and then start changing other sites - you'd have no access to your own e-mail any more and therefore would be locked out of telling other sites you had been hacked!

KickTheGuru · 16/08/2012 14:06

Check your work contract. My DH once worked for a company that took screenshots of the work they were doing every 10 mins.

That means if you log in to Facebook or anything, they can get your login details.

You don't work in North London do you? Hmm

KickTheGuru · 16/08/2012 14:08

Also, if you've not secured your Facebook access, they can potentially run something like Fiddler next to your PC and just check what you're typing in.

It's not entirely legal and the proceeds of "hacking" are not enforceable. Unless you signed it away in your contract

NetworkGuy · 16/08/2012 14:08

but most passwords aren't shown so on screenshots they'd only see stars

KickTheGuru · 16/08/2012 14:10

Also, they could just remove access into your PC. They wouldn't need your login details

KickTheGuru · 16/08/2012 14:10

There are a MILLION ways that they can do it and it's mostly legal if you are accessing it at work without their consent

I use that term very loosely as well. I don't agree with what they are doing but they have a lot of different ways to catch people out

Original poster
worriedtohell · 16/08/2012 17:52

Shockingly just had the it report.

I've postponed the meeting based on not recieving it in sufficient time.

The report states tge images on the pc were there. And that according to the properties, were downloaded in my working hours.
It states that my boss identified some of the pictures as my family members. This is incorrect. I have a copy of the downloads They sent me!!!!! How dare she say that!!

It says the intetnet history was cleared abd my boss tells him this has only happened since ive been in, post investagatory meeting. He has said he can't confim this, but is behaviour of someone covering their tracks!!!!
( now, ive been doing this for the 2.8 years ive worked there, you might think if it was an issue, or pcs checked, it would have been noted sooner)

It then goes into say since the pc wasn't seized, and things have since been deleted, as witnessed by him, as the boss didn't want them on the pc, then he can't comment further.

But that the screen shots they have shown him don't appear to have been tempered with.

OP posts:
KickTheGuru · 16/08/2012 17:55

What is their problem with you?

Have they had any reason to fabricate this kind of stuff?

Original poster
worriedtohell · 16/08/2012 18:02

I knew my boss dislikes me, I had no idea to this extent!!!!

There are no pictures of my family on there, she's not even met my family. So who knows what she's based that on!!!! And how dare she put that on record. On ' evidence' to sack me. Its really not my family. Fucks sake!

I'm fuming. Very, very angry.

Also it was her who asked for tge images to be deleted.

If this doesn't make it clear its a set up, I don't know what does.

Unbelievable.

OP posts:
KickTheGuru · 16/08/2012 18:06

Remember that you can ask for proof of all of their accusations:

Ask her to identify the family members in the photos. You will have that family member in the hearing if needs be (since it's none of them, she can't prove that it's any family members)

Ask for proof that you've deleted your browsing history. You don't need to prove you DIDN'T - you just need to ask them to prove that you did.

So your method of attack her is defence. Sift through every accusation and say "I know you've not met my family and since I don't recognise this as a family member, please clarify WHICH family member you believe this to be. I will ensure that that person is at my hearing to vouch for whether or not that truly is them in the photo"

Original poster
worriedtohell · 16/08/2012 18:17

I'm just furious. Absolutely furious.
And disgusted.

Can I, at this point log a grieviance?

OP posts:
achillea · 16/08/2012 18:39

I think you need to speak to a solicitor. I think she is goading you by mentioning your family, she probably realises she has messed up and is hoping you'll have a tantrum and walk. But you don't sound like a tantrumming kind of person.

I think any solicitor would have a field day getting you compensation for all the stress this is causing. I'm not sure whether framing someone is a criminal offence but it may well be, and you should call the professionals in at least so that you have someone to witness what is going on here.

ClaireRacing · 16/08/2012 19:13

I think it would be hard for you to stay in this job given the breakdown in relationships, so you might as well get as much as you can in a tribunal.

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