any pond experts out there?? i have a very murky new pond...

[ruffletheanimal]

its an old fibreglass pond we just dug in and filled recently.
ive put a load of bunches of oxygenator plants, three pretty lilypad-type plants and theres about 9 fish in there.

it got v murky right away as the kids threw some clumps of the clay soil its dug into in right at the beginning, but i assumed that would clear in time...

ive now added a 'mud ball' and a 'barley ball' both from harrod horticultural, but theres not a lot of difference.

its in the chickens' garden so they drink the water sometimes and eat the fish food the kids' throw in when they can... but i really dont think theres chicken poo getting in coz the sides are too slippery for them to sit backwards next to the pond iyswim.

we didnt want to put a pump in and have to get power out to it... and im sure lots of ponds are fine without pumps, no?? maybe im wrong.

any advice?

I think you have just stagnant water, fish and plants there, to be honest.

We have a pump for our pond. The purpose of the pump is to oxygenate the water, and filter out algea etc.

If the pump stops working (because the filters are too dirty) the water is murky within a few days, and the fish start coming up to the surface a lot gasping for air. They cant breathe!

Would you deprive your chicken of air to breathe in?

The plants will get going eventually but the fish need a pump don't they?

You really need a pump, we have ours running all the time, it clears the green algae and keeps the fish happy, they love trying to swim upstream

oh
bum
i spose id better buy a pump then

do they have to be powered from the house?? i cant get power all the way out there without hiring a digger to dig a trench and a sparky to hook it up

can you get solar powerd pumps then?

You can have a pond with fish with no pump or filter - but you need a LOT of plants.

That said, a murky pond isn't necessarily an unhealthy pond. We've got a pump and filter and still have a pond that's a pretty shade of green - its gradually clearing now we seem to have shifted whatever was causing a partial blockage, but there's quite a lot of algae to remove. If you want a pond that's crystal clear you'll almost certainly need a pump and filter to get there but it is possible to have a healthy pond without as long as you pay attention to the details, get the balance right (and maintain the balance as the fish grow and produce more waste...).

As a first stop, it would be worth taking a water sample to your local aquatic store and asking them to test it for you. Take along things like the pond measurements (do you know the volume), planting levels and type/size of fish in addition to quantity. They should then be well placed to give you advice on how to maintain the pond as a healthy environment for your fish and should be able to talk through different options.

If you're going to have a pump worth anything then it will need power - it may be possible to use a generator, but I'm not sure that would simplify things for you. Is it anywhere near a shed with power? You need a power supply, preferably on its own circuit - and definitely with a good RCD on the end! We used a kit from Blagdon that came with armoured cable and waterproof connectors and ran it round the fence - but you could buy a fair amount of it from a decent electrical trade supplier for a lot cheaper.

You can get solar powered pumps but they tend to be more cosmetic than effective (little floating fountains rather than water circulation and filtration). Our pond is about 3,000L and we have a 6,000W pump in it. You'll need some pretty hefty solar panels to run a pump like that - including somewhere to store power so that the pump can run 24 hours a day.

How big a pump you need depends on your water volume, how much sunshine it gets and what kind of stocking level you have. IIRC the usual advice is to aim to circulate the entire water volume somewhere between 1 and 4 times per day. The higher you lift the water above the pond surface, the narrower the pipe, the longer the pipe, the more joints in the pipe and any restrictions (such as a UV filter) all make it harder to push the water and so require a bigger pump. You need to make sure that any filter you buy is capable of dealing with the flow rate you expect to get from your pump.

rightio

will go and pick up the boy and then go to world of water and see what they say.

thank you for time and expertise, much appreciated

Not 6,000W (really don't want that electricity bill!) - its a 60W pump that has a max flow rate of 6,000L per hour...

Very clear ponds are the worst sort for wildlife; not enough for newts or frogs to eat.

well i went to WoW but didnt ask anyone... looked at pumps and whatnot and they are megabucks and besides, i really want to make a 'natural' pond work.

so i got LOADS of plants and more barley straw and all that gubbins and ive planted that all in... and i will hope for the best. it really doesnt have to be sparkly clean - it is for wildlife that we have the thing after all.

fingers crossed

Good luck I know pond stuff gets silly sometimes. I've a friend with a little pond in her garden (I think its a trug tub type thing) - does absolutely nothing to it but still has newts and frogs so its a healthy enough environment for them.

Have you got anywhere for the wildlife to get in or out of the pond if they want to? Or more importantly, for them to get out if they fall in...

It may be the fish that are the problem - their food and poo are just not natural in a smallish enclosed pond. How big is your pond? i think there is a calculation, something like 50l of water per inch of fish.

is good info on fish in ponds.

As long as the fish are small and not overfed, it should be possible to get a stable, healthy pond environment - I think... The trick is to get the right balance such that the nitrogen cycle keeps going - that relies on having sufficient of the right type of bacteria to break down ammonia (generated from decomposing organic matter, such as excess fish food, fish poo and decaying plants) into nitrite, and then nitrite into nitrate which the plants can use as food. If the ammonia isn't processed then the fish will die. If the nitrite isn't processed then the fish will die. In a pond with a pump and filter the intention is for a lot of that bacterial action to happen in the filter - in this instance it needs to happen within the pond itself.

rufflethanimal - I'd still say its worth taking a sample of water to your local aquatic store periodically and getting it checked. Our nearest one does them for free. Its worth keeping an eye on the health of the water, especially while the pond is getting established, as you can hopefully then identify and solve a problem before it gets out of hand. There are various things you can add to a pond to help it get functioning that don't require any equipment and are (comparatively) cheap - we had a bottle of "filter start" (lots of bacteria - doesn't have to go in a filter) that cost about £10, and I've also used some granules that give the bacteria somewhere to live in the pond.

Another stray random thought - you'll need to keep an area ice free in the winter or the fish will suffocate. Banging the ice to break it is a really bad idea, as the shock can kill the fish - use a hot saucepan to melt a hole.

you may just need to leave your pond to settle for longer - the aquatic compost in the plants may be contributing nutrients to the water which will encourage algal growth. Also if you fill or top up your pond with tap water it will upset the balance - use rainwater where possible.

Because of the warm sunny weather you may just be seeing an algal bloom which will disappear when the nutrients are used up.

Just on the subject of wildlife ponds - generally if you want native beasties (invertebrates, frogs and newts etc) to inhabit your pond you should avoid stocking with fish unless your pond is a biggy (+10,000 l) as they are voracious feeders and will strip it of small beasties and their eggs/larvae.

Water fleas (daphnia) can help to clear cloudy ponds due to algal blooms but they may just be hoovered up by the fish!

Yeah - daphnia can be bought from aquarium shops... they are like sea monkeys... they have been used to GREAT effect on the Norfolk Broads (which have suffered from too much Nitrogen run-off from agriculture)...

www.econ-ecology.co.uk/restoration.php#casestudy1

I found a never-ending source of daphnia in the wild back when I was a keen teenage fish-keeper. They love stagnant, algae infested water...

The fish will love em - but hopefully they won't eat them all. You could always remove the fish if you have somewhere else to put them? They probably don't need much feeding - I would advise strict supervision of the fish food. That could be the main cause of the murkyness... uneaten fish food = nitrogen = algae = murky