re-planting a new bed - how do I prepare soil?

[CurlyhairedAssassin]

After much hard work (and copious use of glycosphate , we have finally cleared a border which runs the width of our garden at the back. It had brambles, ivy, groundcover plants, grasses and all sorts of other weeds just growing wild in it. But it's all gone and we are ready to plant a hedge and other stuff in front of it.

My question is, what condition will the soil be in? Do we need to put compost down or more topsoil or something or will some general fertiliser all over the place be enough to give the newly planted stuff a good start?

We have worked so hard on this big wild border I really don't want to see our new plants die because we didn't do some vital soil preparation.

thanks

It's very hard to say without seeing it - I suggest you take a look at this advice from the RHS and see which it looks most like:

apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/profile.aspx?pid=179

Presumably you've dug the whole border over thoroughly as part of the weed removal?

I wouldn't imagine you'd need to put in topsoil, compost might be nice if you've got some, and some blood fish and bone is always a good idea.

I'd guess that you won't have got all the weeds out, though. Weeds have been evolving for as long as we've been trying to get rid of them, and they're very good at staying put! (And yes, herbicide resistant varieties have evolved too.) I'd be tempted to wait until September and get rid of any weeds that re-emerge.

Autumn would be a much better time than mid-summer to plant big time, in my opinion.

thanks for your reply, GrendelsMum.

I'm not totally sure but our soil seems like a bit of a cross between silt and loam. it's very easy to grow things in and easy to turn over, suppose we're quite lucky really.

Yes, we've dug the whole border over VERY thoroughly. DH has done the heavy forking over and got rid of things like bramble roots etc, and then I've gone over where he's done virtually inch by inch doing hand weeding, deeply - I feel like I've removed EVERY piece of perennial weed that was there, but like you say I know what they can be like! We did clear a section last summer and put black plastic down over autumn and winter until we were ready to start working on it again this year and there wasn't much that re-emerged so I think we're working pretty thoroughly.

I think in this weather the annual weeds are going to be the worst on any patch of bare soil. I know it's not the best time to plant but I've been working 6 days a week until May and just didn't get enough free time to do much before now. But we really do want to get our laurel hedge in now and we've also got a couple of other shrubs to put in. Perhaps I'll plant them, but after that there will still be a LOT of bare soil in front of the newly planted hedge. Do you reckon that I'd be best covering it over with something rather than planting then?

Thanks again

Oh, good for you! Sounds like you've done a really good job - sorry, I imagined that you might just have vaguely sprayed it.

With my head on, I'd say that you shouldn't try and plant anything in this heat.

But with my gardener's heart, I look out of the window and see all the plants I'm busy planting out myself, and I know I wouldn't be able to resist it!

Your soil sounds great already - I'd dig in some nice blood fish and bone at the recommended density, and then go for it. I'd probably mulch quite heavily after watering, in order to keep the water in, keep new weeds from popping up, etc. The worms will pull the mulch down, so it will benefit te soil. Do water very very thoroughly at first (for the first week, say) and then I'd say it's pretty much sink or swim for your plants water-wise - I was chatting to an old farmer today, saying I felt I was going to have to start watering, and he told me to stand firm, that once you start watering, you're watering for ever.

Pick small laurels, by the way - they will establish much quicker and overtake larger plants within about 4-5 years (if I remember my plant growth stats...).

You're so helpful, Grendelsmum - thanks!!

What mulch do you think might be best?

Interesting to hear what the farmer had to say. He should know, if anyone does. Yes, maybe plants just learn to do without water to some extent, in a drought. But have to say, I'm watering somet things every night at the moment - kids' sunflowers and some french beans, and, of course, the shrubs that we've bought for our new order - it's amazing how quickly the pots dry out.

We already have the laurels waiting to be put in. They are smallish - they were 3.99 each, about the height of my legs!

I have to say, I've really caught the gardening bug since having time to put some proper effort in. We've had 7 years of the kids being too young to be left to play for long, and with my working hours as well.....all we've really done in 7 years is mow the grass and do a bit of pruning. The weeds were HORRENDOUS as you can imagine, but we're getting there. I'm quite excited - I just want to run out and buy stuff!!!!

Why not plant some annuals to give you flowers for the rest of the summer and then do the proper planting in the autumn.
It really is much too hot to plant anything important now but some eg Cosmos would be ok and will flower from July till the frosts.

Some cosmos to fill in the space in front of the laurels would be lovely - if you pick just white cosmos, it can look quite dramatic.

If you've got the laurels already, they'll need to go in asap. Make sure they are fully soaked before you plant them - get several buckets full of water and dunk each plant under water until the air bubbles stop coming up.

I've got no idea on the best mulches in general, as our council gives out free mulch / soil improver, so we use that at work and I use it at home. Something cheap is probably best!

There's some info on the RHS about mulching:
www.rhs.org.uk/Gardening/Grow-Your-Own/Advice/Veg-advice/Mulching

Pleased you're enjoying your new garden!

Grendel I agree, just white Cosmos would look great. Where do you work btw? You mention mulch you use at work so am presuming you do sth garden related...

Funny you should mention cosmos, both of you. I was given some young cosmos plants last year by my auntie who grew them from seed. I didn't really know anything about them prior to that, but they were absolutely fantastic. The flowers were so beautiful and looked fab bobbing about in a slight breeze. AND they lasted all summer long. AND, they dropped a few seeds which are popping up here and there now.

She's given me a few again this year and I was wondering where to put them so in the new bed is a great idea. Only thing is, it's shady for most of the afternoon - would they do ok? I'm not sure what colour they are - last year they were mixed - a fuschia sort of colour and a kind of pale lilac, and some white ones. Looked gorgeous.....

I had some in an East facing border ast year (so quite shady) and they still flowered their socks off.
Go for it, you have nothing to lose if they arent happy, they will just flower less than in they were in full sun.

Oh, and Pannacotta, I couldn't help myself the other week at the nursery and bought a few plants. I got the laurels, a viburnum tinus, a variegated griselinia, a choisya ternata, a beautiful euonuymous jap. pierrolino, a hosta (which won't last long with the way the snails are here at the mo), a hebe "Frozen Flame" (gorgeous, but probably wouldn't do well in new border so will have to find a sunnier home for it).

I could have bought loads more but restrained myself!

I am prepared to wield the watering can!!!!!

I am just the same, always buying new plants, even though I often dont have space for them!
Sorry to be a nag, but you werent intending to plant all the above in the sweltering heat?!

Will put the cosmos in the new border then! I think I'll have to put slug pellets down though. - my auntie did cosmos for herself, my mum and my sister and eveyrone else's got completely eaten. I was late planting mine out so was forewarned and put pellets down. Sorry snails....but the cosmos were soooo gorgeous.

Nag away, I'd appreciate the advice if it stopped me unwittingly killing off some plants. I don't think I'd have planted them out during the past few days - it has really been soooo hot up here (northwest). But our sweltering heat has disappeared this afternoon - it's now grey and raining!

Do you think after a few days of cooler weather and a bit of rain it might be ok to plant them out? I think it's going to be cooler for the rest of the week up here (completely different to the SE, I noticed tonight on the weather forecast!)

I have never had a prob with Cosmos being eaten, either by snails or slugs.
Pellets are not great for wildlife (sorry, nagging again), as they can poison birds/frogs.
You could try putting grit round the plants if you think the border is likely to be under snail/slug attack, bit more eco-friendly...

I'm going to join in the nagging. Sorry!

In my opinion, slug pellets are a waste of your time and money - that £3 or however much you've spent could have been a packet of cosmos seeds, enough to fill your whole bed. There are birds and frogs that will deal with your slugs and snails for you, and in the mean time, pop out with beer or milk traps and drown them. We don't use pellets in the garden where I work, and I don't use them at home, and all is looking lovely!

Did you say you'd bought one hosta? Gorgeous plants (I have a terrible weakness for hostas and now have a small collection), but I'd pop your hosta in a pot and put it by the back door - one hosta is going to look pretty silly in a shrub border.

The shrubs sound lovely. Personally, now you've bought them, I'd get them into the ground asap, water extremely well, and mulch furiously.

Hope you're continuing to enjoy the garden with this barrage of advice!

Ah so you are a gardener (or similar) then Grendel?!

Is it better then to plant now in this heat? I thought it better to wait and just water like mad while still in pots, but I bow to the superior knowledge of a professional!!

I'll try the grit round the cosmos then I think. The snails are a definite problem though. We have frogs galore, and the snails are still breeding like crazy. My new hosta (still in its pot) has half its leaves already eaten - there were 2 snails on it. I picked them off, but I have tried growing hostas before and the snails always get them in the end......

I think you're right, Grendel, one hosta would look a bit daft. A range of them together might look a bit better and maybe half of them might survive the snails!

I'm so sorry but can I pick your brains just one more time? I have a philadelphus that is years old in the border I want to overhaul. I am unsure whether to keep it as it is soooooo leggy. Lots of dead wood, the foliage is really only growing on the top third of the plant (which is probably 10 ft high) so it looks awful further down. Is there any way to rejuvenate it? Or is it not worth saving when it's been neglected so long? One option is to dig it up and replace with a rhodendron.....?????

Not a professional myself so don't bow too much to my knowledge... all will be revealed! The pots is my experience - I find that in an ordinary garden, rather than a place with a dedicated nursery area, pots just risk drying out from one watering to the next (black plastic pots heating up, no additional source of water, etc) , and getting them into the ground means they've got a much better chance. In a nursery area, you can look after things beautifully.

Your frogs should kick in and get rid of the slugs before too long, Curlyhairedassassin. (May we call you Curly for short?) I find that hostas in pots with grit on the top do fine.

The philadelphus is fairly easy. After flowering, take one in three stems right down to the bottom (pick the oldest to take out), or as far down as you can get. This will start it regrowing from the bottom. Then take some of the rest of the stems (all if it looks like it can take it) down to the height that you want the shrub to be, to a nice plump bud. Then feed it with some blood, fish and bone, etc. Frankly, next year it will look pretty scruffy if it's anything like mine, but it's on the right route!

Thanks, Grendel. It would never even have crossed my mind to put grit in the actual pot. Duh......

• "Then take some of the rest of the stems (all if it looks like it can take it) down to the height that you want the shrub to be, to a nice plump bud"

I've had a go at doing that, but the problem is, apart from a few very new looking thin stems growing from the base, EVERY other stem is just old dead wood most of the way along, with the leaves growing only from halfway up the stem. So the only buds I can see are WAY along the stem. (if you see what I mean). So if I cut back to the first bud on each stem, I'd have a bush of what would essentially look like brittle looking twigs with a bud on the end of each stem. It's just got really really leggy.

Part of me wants to shock it into regrowth from the base by cutting it ALL back quite hard, but that would probably kill it, right?

I had an old woody Philadpelphus which was pruned back very hard by a landscaper who was doing some work in the garden and had to move it to plant a tree.
It has rejuventated really well (no flowers for a year) and is flowering now and smelling great.

Just add my twopenneth. Before I got into veg, I gave over the entire veg patch to Cosmos a few years back. It was stunning. I had a mix of Purity and a bright pink one (seeds from a friend ) and I had to wade through them to deadhead them. It was a riot.

Oh and the point I meant to make about the Cosmos was that the snails and slugs were not remotely interested in them.

I wonder if snails and slugs have different tastes depending on where you are in the country?! I'm in Liverpool. And hostas and (young) cosmos seem to be their diet of choice.....

I'm thinking of moving the Philadelphus now, too, taffetacat. When it loses its leave it looks messy behind it - there's a fence and someone's old shed that you can see over the fence. Might put a rhodedenron in its place if they seem pretty robust, but keep the philadelphus for another spec - maybe the front garden instead.