Killing animals in the garden

[hub2dee]

Erm... bit of a strange one...

Planted up the allotment yesterday. First year of giving it a go seriously... call it male nesting... lots of broad beans and lettuces (from large plugs), onions from sets, tatties from chitted ones we couldn't get through in time.

My experienced friends (who helped) advised I should come and regularly kill the slugs so the lettuces stand a chance. Thing is, I just can't kill stuff... Might consider beer-trap drowning, I dunno... and I don't really want to use the slug bait as it's an extra chemical I guess we can do without in our soil / bodies...

What's your take on this ? Has anyone faced similar (moral ?) dilemas ? Or is it a 'them or me' survival thing ?

I'm also posting because I've discovered more newts in my little pond (including Greast Crested which are reasonably rare) and I thought it would be good for them to get some extra food - like a nice juicy worm, so I dug one up and tossed it in... but I just couldn't watch it swim / drown and had to take it out after 30 seconds and put it back in the soil...

Can anyone relate or am I just being soft ?

It's not my life to take away, IYSWIM...

(Interesting discussion on termination could be relevant in a way I suppose too)...

I've done some boiled lettuce ice cubes for the tadpoles / newts and I guess they can just eat that, or crawl onto land and hunt for their own stuff... and am considering taking slugs from the lettuce patch and ploking them in the pond for the newts, but it's just all a bit nasty...

This 'problem' extends to other areas... I'll be putting up a bird table soon, and during nesting time it's useful for the birdies to have some fresh maggots etc. and you can buy them by the tin... but again, I just don't think I could do it...

BTW - I have no issue with the birds eating the worms they find themselves... it's not the predatory cycle of nature that bothers me, just the death-by-human-intervention bit.

Perhaps I'm just too soppy, but would be interested in a general discussion around these issues. FWIW, yes, I'm veggie. Yes I eat eggs, yes I wear leather shoes. Maybe this thread belongs in 'Religion / Spirituality' ?

Digging in the garden I sadly chopped a worm in two with a trowel.

Feeling mighty bad, I thought I'd better make its death more useful so plonked it in the pond infront of one of my newts (sadly not Mr. Great Crested who was hiding a the time). The little newt started pecking the worm (which is basically bigger than the newt's mouth) !!!

"Yummy, yum," said Mr. Newt, "it's Christmas time !"

So I have basically invited every slug in SE London to a gastropod gastrofest then Arse.

they are their favourite thing. You could always stick some hostas in for a bit of variety

So what would you do if you found a nest of defenceless little newborn rats?

(I dropped a heavy paint can on them...)

Blu. But I'd do the same.

BLU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Marina !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think, for me, it would depend on where I found them.

If it was in the garden, I think I'd leave the little things to scurry around and live their life according to the way of the world.

If it was under my kitchen floorboards I think I'd probably capture them and take them to a park.

I don't think I could kill 'em. Ewwwwww !!!! The squeals !!!!!

They're some little ratty mamma's darling babies....

But B2D - will you feel the same about the slugs when they have decimated your carefully tended crop OVERNIGHT!! Because they do...

hub2dee, but picture the scene - Harvest time 2006 and you will have a gorgeous toddler wobbling enthusiastically amongst your crop, tugging at this, trampling on that, and maybe having a little splashy play in your little pond with the newts - reaching for them and squealing with delight.

Do you really want your little one splashed with Weill's Disease??

No, which is why the park option isn't a goer either!

I had rats in my kitchen in my last house - blighters came from the park and railway embankment. They eat through wiring, insulation, Xmas Pudding Ingredients....

It has to be the paint can!

Them or us. Slugs dont give a monkey's that you wont have any beans left, do they?

Look, everyone, I have already begun to travel down the slippery path to wanton destruction... today I fed half a worm to my newt.

That's a good beginning for a blood-thirsty warrior isn't it ?

This evening I will go with my two grapefruit halves and some holly and protect my lettuces !

Anyway, aren't rats only in our spaces because we have displaced them from their habitat through over-development ?

Poor little ratty thingies...

Actually: I saw a rat scurry through some forest / scrub land near our house and I wouldn't like it to be around spoiling the beautiful scene of domestic paternal bliss painted by Blu (which was lovely and gushy, thanks ), but I will leave our safety in the hands of Mr. Fox who patrols these parts.

I imagine you won't be surprised to learn I had a pet rat as a kid (one reared in captivity not a captured brown sewer jobby). It was lovely. I walked around Walpole park (Ealing) with it raising money for Guide Dogs for the Blind.... on my own..... I was an odd bod even then. My bro sold gerbils he bred to Harrods !!!! What a pair we must have been for our folks !!!!

Don't feed worms to the newts. Worms are GOOD. essential for healthy soil. If newts will eat slugs then that's different

hatsoff, I like worms. I leave them in the soil. I only fed a bit to the newt (with emotional difficulty) because it was cut in two (accidentally) whilst I was gardening.

I sadly also have difficulty with the concept of feeding slugs to the newts, but everyone is trying to make me into a real man and take the slugs from my allotment before they eat my crop and create the fattest, happiest newts in all of London town.

H2D: If an earthworm is divided (roughly) into half, both haves recreate the other half, making 2 earthworms!

alux, hmmm... that's interesting. I thought it was largely an urban myth. Did some googling and plenty of sites seem to repeat one set text acknowledging the two halves both grow and can regenerate (but sometimes with two head-ends or tow tail-ends), however a couple of sites explain this is not quite correct.

Example

Or on here ... "two halves of a dead worm"

This apparently reliable source suggests only the head-end can survive

This place seems rather more definitive... bet you didn't know a worm had a clitellum ? here

Are there any biology experts in this field on MN ? It does seem the 'taught truth' is not 100% either way... I might point the tapeworm discussion here...

not sure about the worms though I'm sure the kids have cut a few in half and certainly, one half has wriggled off happily (no doubt to die a painful, horrible death!).

As for slugs - we are overrun outside and inside. At night, the slugs used to wait until after midnight to come out and invade the house. Last night, while watching that bond film, I noticed they were under the couch on starters orders, waiting for us to disappear and then raid the lounge. We don't have floorboards so I shudder to think where they are hiding.

The upside down grapefruit is great because they hide in there and you can chuck it out in the morning. Our problem is the endless supply of slugs - I would literally be throwing away 20 a night and that's just inside!

hub2dee, are you Ken Livingstone??

Ours de gingembre, mais oui.

Oh, his half French cousin then?

Exactement.