Gardeners World - What a shame

[Chumpfriend]

Am I being unreasonable to think that Gardener’s World has jumped the shark?

It’s honestly a travesty of what went before and in no way makes anyone with a modest garden feel capable of creating a garden or delivers any meaningful advice.

There are BBC tropes and messaging rammed down your throat and literally nothing that relates to any ordinary gardener at this time of year.

The Beechwood Garden is a shadow reference to the old GW but I’m so disappointed at such a lost opportunity to make people feel like they can have a go at growing stuff.

Geoff Hamilton may be turning in his grave.

I don't follow that logic at all.

Yes, and my point is that if GW viewers were to broaden their horticultural knowledge by, for example, reading books, they would be able to view GW as part of that knowledge, instead of expecting it to tell them everything they need to know, which people on this thread have complained it doesn't. Well of course it doesn't, it's just a one hour programme.

The 'Dogtooth violent lady' doesn't sound at all boring. 😂

I saw Monty at Chelsea in 2023 and his loathing of it all was palpable. He was just by himself at one point, in a cordoned off bit, staring down the crowds on one of the avenues, totally motionless for AGES like he was trying to get beamed up to anywhere else, the poor bugger.

I’d like GW to do a sort of real life fuck up section.

“Now, we’re going to the underwhelming garden of a portly middle aged lady in the Home Counties, with lazy teenagers, a couple of dickhead dogs that churn up the ‘lawn’ into mud broth, and shit in the nice bits, and too many cocky squirrels that fuck up anything interesting. Her tomatoes are good but the rest, well Toby, what do you think?”

<cuts to Toby buckland, shirt off, looking manly, swigging at his tea mug>

”oh I know exactly what this viewer needs.” Cough.

Toby Buckland can get me off in 10 seconds flat, ideally in the greenhouse. Over my aluminium staging.

I have to agree with you.
I spent years wishing it was longer and have lived to regret that.
Half an hour was just right. Some facts, an inspirational garden, one lady who has 12,000 clematis plants, some more fact, a few jobs for the weekend and away.

I love GW, it’s my favourite programme. Gin & tonic and as soon as the theme tune starts, I’m relaxed.
I also love the National Collections, I find people with a passion so interesting.
I do admit that DH and I do enjoy taking the mickey out of Monty (much as I love him) with his Jewel Garden and seemingly endless bbc money pot.

Good call on the Alan Titchmarsh 'How to Garden' books. I really think that someone starting out could get those books and have all they need to set themselves up.

Yes they’re the Delia of gardening. I don’t like his swingy bob though.

@Shedmistress Thank you so much for saying "No Dig on top of Bindweed just feeds the Bindweed and creates a monster"

That is absolutely my experience. I actually said this to Charles Dowding at an RHS show Q&A once and he told me it is not the case.

But that doesn't make sense. The issue isn't that most of us on this thread are ignoramuses who want to be educated and are fed up we're not being spoonfed sufficiently thoroughly. Many (most?) of us already know this stuff.

And I don't at all mind listening to Monty tell me something I do, in fact, know. Nor do I mind reading a magazine that tells me earnestly how to propagate perennials, or how to prune a rose. In the same way, when I watch Masterchef, I must admit, I do actually know how to make a hollandaise or how to fillet a fish. I'm ok with seeing someone knowledgeable go over the basics, or deal with a well-worn subject capably.

What I don't appreciate is shallow, glib, lazy versions of 'the education segment' that are filmed more in order to look inspirational (read: expensive) than to be practical. That has nothing to do with whether or not I've read enough hort literature (and I strongly suspect I've read rather more than you!).

I'm in my 2nd year of having a garden and it's been a steep learning curve. I was grateful to Beechgrove at first but now I think if I see ONE MORE SEGMENT on growing FUCKING POTATOES or FUCKING TOMATOES I might shoot myself.

I enjoyed last night's GW. I did think that moving the primroses from the driveway was...odd.

Beechgrove has been loud and proud 85% tatties since episode 1.

I think that when @ExOptimist suggested books in the first place she was genuinely trying to be helpful and pass on her experience to someone she took to be hungry for gardening information.

I'm sorry - you're absolutely right, and that was kind of her. (And I wouldn't mind a books thread, either - maybe we need one?!).

I really am not writing off GW, either. I like it. But I'd hate to see it axed, and I do think it needs a bit of a revamp, or it'll struggle.

Many people on this thread are specifically seeking basic "how to" advice by the sound of it, so I think you've made an incorrect assumption there.

I disagree that all the segments are shallow, glib and look expensive to do. However I do think that part of the remit of the programme is to look inspirational. It's the top BBC gardening programme, it should look inspirational.

Finally, when trying to score points over someone it's never a good idea to make assumptions about other people's careers, background and knowledge when you actually know fuck all about them.

You've stated you're a professional gardener but I've said nothing about my background and experience apart from the fact that I first had a garden 40 years ago. Insulting fellow professionals is not a good look in my view.

Well, some are, and maybe many are - but you didn't realise that some of us were joking! We weren't actually seeking advice. And the poster who has the national collection of bindweed doesn't really, either. It was just a bit of fun around discussing what we think about a TV show!

I don't think all the segments look shallow or glib or expensive, and I didn't say they did, either.

I agree very strongly that it's never a good idea to make assumptions about other people's careers, background and knowledge when you actually know fuck all about them. But you did, didn't you? And it was only when you kept on patronising everyone that I felt annoyed enough to bite.

If you meant your original 'advice' about reading gardening books innocently, and the joke in the post you were responding to went over your head, fine. We all get it wrong at times. But you could have the good grace to reply 'oops, sorry, should have read properly' rather than doubling down on it.

Perhaps we all need to do some actual gardening in our own ways tomorrow to let off steam?...

I’d really not set out to cause a row about gardening. I think most people here are at least interested.
My only point was that I thought GW was slightly out of kilter with where most people are at and I feel it should serve the majority better.
Garden wherever and however you want and learn from wherever you can.
But if the flagship BBC gardening program doesn’t represent the majority of people then I think it needs to recalibrate slightly. I don’t mean it shouldn’t challenge or educate- I just think it needs to understand its audience better.

Or if you feel like something more cathartic, I could remind everybody of the 'wonderful indoor garden' segment about three years ago that consisted of a multimillion pound flat filled with a thousand plastic plants?

This thread inspired me to find Monty Don’s Italian Gardens on YouTube (outside the UK so no access to iplayer), for a bit of demented fountains, topiary and giant Baroque sculptures.

I agree. The vast majority of us don’t have massive plots and can’t afford an endless shopping list of new expensive plants. All too often it feels as if the bulk of gardening you watch on GW is somebody lifting an expensive plant into pre dug loamy soil.

I don’t feel there is much skill in that, we can all search the internet. With the cost of living crisis this type of gardening is increasingly out of the range of many.

I would love to see somebody weed a patch of ground. Identify all the weeds and show you how to dig each one out in the best way. Then show how to fill that area in a cost effective, environmentally friendly,interesting and aesthetically pleasing way.

I’ve got loads of gardening books. I still struggle massively to do even basic things like weed, build a garden on a budget , keep things alive and make endless expensive mistakes. I don’t always find books that helpful if I’m honest. We’re surrounded by a mass of information online and in books.It can be a bit flat, shallow and basic. I do feel we’re losing that in-depth knowledge that gets handed down by those more experienced. Gardeners World is the perfect chance to pull info together and have somebody demonstrate and explain basic (but actually not that straightforward) info and skills in a more meaningful more in-depth way. It doesn’t do that. Gardening is so much more than removing the latest expensive buzz variety of a plant from its plastic pot and shoving it in its perfectly prepared, correct (always weed free) space.

I haven’t watched GW for years. I prefer GQT on r4.
Nice to see so many Geoff fans here. I loved him. Still feels sad that he died so suddenly.

Seed sowing is seeds, some compost, something to put it in and a tray to catch the water and some sort of label.

Not seed compost, potting compost, coir, vermiculite, gravel, a presser, a sieve, a different type of gravel, a cold frame or a heat mat depending on the type of seed. And not expensive trays or root trainers either.

Most beginners will buy a small bag of multipurpose compost from b&q. And a family member cat or human will knock it over at some point. A different family member will also flood it out or let it dry up at some point. This is totally normal.

The range of options should be explored because that is reality for most people. They kind of completely miss the middle ground of what normal gardeners do.

And licence fee payers are more than entitled to say if they feel they are missing the mark.