starting a garden from scratch - help!

[midnightexpress]

Right. We've got a plot - approx 80' x 35', south facing, but in Scotland (west, so wet) and on a hill (though the garden itself is more or less flat). There are mature trees at the back (along one of the long sides) which we plan to keep. Soil is probably on the acid side (most gardens round here have lots of acers, pieris, azaleas, that sort of thing).

It is completely covered in brambles, which we are going to get cleared, but after that, we're at a bit of a loss. Current plan extends to growing some veg (possibly in a small polytunnel) and laying the rest to lawn, as we have two v small LOs and not much time to garden at the moment. But it would be nice to think about the future and how it could be, in case we need to make provision for this when sorting out the ground work.

We also have a shady courtyard, where I can satisfy my urge for pots and ferns and hostas and the like.

So, really what I'm asking is, if you could start from scratch in that sort of garden, what would you do? please feel free to let your imagination run riot - I'm just looking for ideas really.

Thanks oh green-fingered ones.

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It sounds fabulous - if a little challenging.
it sounds quite a longish garden. so theres prob room to screen your poly tunnel quite nicely. If you could do it really safely I think a wildlife pond would be good for getting in frogs to tackle the inevitable slugs.

Don't forget to build in a purpose built space for compost bins.

i think if it were my garden I think I'd style it quite loosely - it doesnt sound like it would suit formal. I'd build in plant tunnels and hidey holes for kids to make dens in. Maybe a wigwam willow house. I'd also get the kids to plant a tree each as soon as they are old enough so they can watch their tree grow as they get older.

tis all I can think of for now

You can get compost bins heavily subsidised from the Wast Aware Scotland from £6. You are entitled to up to three - and you get a wee kitchen caddy with them too.

If oyu are doing the ground work now, it might be worth deciding where you might want beds in the future (curves around the edges, rather than square) and building them in. If you can afford to rasie them a bit with a brick/stone edging, it will help with the kids later when they start kicking balls around - it'll protect the plants slightly.

Plant shrubs at the moment: the azaleas, rhodies, pieris, acers that do so well in the West of Scoltand. Ceonothis is a quick growing plant which gives a spectacular if short burst of blue in June - but be careful about wehre you put it as it is fast growing and it can unbalance a shrib border (speaks the voice of experience! )

It sounds like you have a big enough garden to think of a different "areas" to creat interest - maybe have a second wee "hidden" garden beyond some bushes/roses where you could put a wee table and chairs for a "chillout" spot (when the kids are asleep!)

Do you have a drying green? Try to put it smewhere not too obvious from the house/where you sit - there is nothing worse than having taken the time to develop a nice garden, to have it hidden from view by sheets!

Go to Gardening Scoltand this weekend for ideas! (I'm off there on Friday - have already bought my tickets!)

You could plant a few fruit trees - you might even consider espalier apples or pears to screen the polytunnel...

Shrubs are low maintenance - and underplant lighter trees with hebes and similar to reduce weed problems - ideally put layer of landscape material underneath to further reduce weed potential - top with wood chip shreddings...

Brambles will take some clearing. Roundup is reasonably effective, although new growth will probably take a few applications to completely erradicate.

Also - make sure to plant loads of bulbs so you have spring colour coming through year after year!

OOh thanks so much for the ideas everyone. Prettybird, thanks for the compost bins info - will look into that definitely. I love ceonothis - does it do OK in West of Scotland? I don't see it up here so much. Re drying green, I'm not too sure how it will work - as we're in the basement and the garden is on a hill, we can't actually see it from the house (hard to explain) so for us it's not an issue, though our upstairs neighbours will get to see all my knickers floating in the breeze .

mistlethrush - is roundup ok if we're planning to plant vegetables? How long does it take to get it out of the soil again iyswim?

OYBBK, I really like the idea of hideyholes and different 'rooms' too; was thinking of perhaps lowering the level for the veg area for a bit of additional shelter as the site is quite exposed.

Blimey.

If you're going to use something, Roundup is the one to use as it breaks down very quickly once it hits the soil and becomes harmless. My father was in agriculture (expert) and recommends (when necessary, in moderation of course). No problem using on land that you're going to grow veg on.

There are some fantastic nurseries and gardens on west coast - suggest that you have a few days out and visit some for inspiration.

I had Ceanothus in a garden in the south west of scotland, it did really well....

I would plant some native shrubs, dog roses and hawthorn, maybe elderflower too.

Roundup is OK as de-activates on contact with rge soil, I beleive. i towrks on the green bits.

Re ceonothus doing well in Scotland: I planted a wee plant (one of the "two for three" offers in M&S) about 7 years ago, It is now a monster about 9 feet acorss and 5 foot high. Totally dominating the front of the border, but I am scared of mvoing it as it is so big and they apparently don't take to severe pruning ( awee bit at a time would have been OK). It does look beautiful at this time of year - it has just come out and is a lovely vivid deep blue.

I can undesrasnt what you mean aobut the drying green - we actually had that problem in reverse: we are the ones in the upstairs of a stone villa conversion. It was made worse however by the fact that the way the clothes lines were set up, three quarters of "drying" was on "our" side - and 'cos it was on a slope, meant when our neighbours had their washing out, we couldn't see our garden from the house. (SOlved when we put the patio in and took out "our" two poles, leaving the other two on the neighbours' "side". We've put in a whirlygig for oursleves and did offer to buy them one or to give them an extra pole for the to triangulate on on thier side)

You can get a dark red leaved elder and the frothy white (very slightly pink-tinged) flowers against the dark red foliage look wonderful. Beware elder buses and washing lines though - not a good combination.

Would probably think of a hedge too for added protection. We often see fuschias in hedges in Scotland - wonderful!

Yes, I was thinking perhaps of a hawthorn hedge - I LOVE hawthorn, especially at this time of year of course. The two upstairs flats have a vertical division of the hilly bit next to the house and ours stretches the full width at the top, so we'll want a boundary of some sort between theirs and ours, if only to stop the LOs from rolling off down the hill. Fuschia hedging might be nice too - I've seen a lot of that in the highlands. Perhaps a bit of a mixture - the old privet hedge at one side is completely out of control so will probably have to be dug up and something else put in, so perhaps we can have a bit of both. The only thing we want to ensure is that we don't block out the view completely, as we have a lovely panoramic view of the whole of Glasgow and the hills beyond.

For the weeds, we had thought of just covering it all, but the brambles are so rampant that the boys will be teenagers by the time they get a garden, so digger and roundup seems to be the way to go. We went away for a week on holiday and I swear they'd grown about 3 feet in our absence

Thanks for all the inspiration, I'm feeling quite excited now.

...the weeds that is, rather than the DSs.

On one of the gerdening programmes last week, a gardener with a mjor weed/bramble problem swore by cutting everythign down, allowing it to start regrowing jsut a but (so there is nice new rigorous growth) and then blasting it with Roundup.

If you are a bit exposed, fuschia hedging might not be the best. Althuogh it Does* grow well here (despite my dad's protestations to the contrary) I wouldn't want to expose it to chilly winds. Hawothron, on the other hand, is as tough as old boots!

Privets can be rescued: they can be cut back quite hard and will then thicken up.

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We hd loads of ground elder when we moved in 9 years ago - unfortuantely it was in amongst established flower borders so I couldn't take the "nuke it" approach. It's only now, after nine years, and one "move" of the flwoer border to put in a patio, that I have finally got on top of it (althugh there is still a wee patch besdie the pear tree that I can't dig out).

If you are doing a full sacle blitz, it'll be much easier than trying to sift through soil to get rid of ground elder roots. (I was pregnant the second summer and had to decide that I must already be immune to toxoplasmosis as there was no way I could "feel" the roots wearing garden gloves)

Definitely cut and spray on new growth best approach.

Fuschia mixed in with the hawthorn would look lovely and the flowering period for the hedge would be significantly extended - you need to go somewhere you can get some cuttings so that you get the hardy version that is happy to grow wild.

I had an out of control privet hedge in a previous garden that I cut down to between 1" and 6" (literally - neighbours were a bit shocked to start with). It rapidly turned into a much denser hedge that was easier to cut (kept strictly under control) - to encourage bushyness, pinch out ends of new shoots repeatedly. You could also try 'laying' hedge, even if you do it in a rather basic way eg by taking out half of the stems and leaving the best looking ones, then cutting half way through these stems at the bottom (or eg 1" up and pushing them horizontal. When privet gets a bit bigger, you can bend the branches over and weave it into the hedge lower down (or tie in with string) - if you are ruthless this also can thicken up your hedge a lot and you don't start from ground level that way! I've got honeysuckle growing through my privet hedge in this garden, and that improves its appearance and interest a lot.

OK mistlethrush, thanks, I'll maybe try that before I root it up.

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We've also transplanted part of a privet hedge successfully: cut it right down before doing so and it is perfectly happy in its new location.

you can be ruthless in cutting back teh privet hegde and it will look much better in a year