Plant suggestion, clay, shade

[MereDintofPandiculation]

I have a planting opportunity!

Deep shade, 5ft stone wall and a holly tree to the E, less than a metre away, apple trees to the W about 2m away. South completely blocked by high trees about 5m away. N has medlar 10m away and bushes in between.

I was thinking towards Helleborus, to extend the current bed. But just in front are two Rodgersia, one with palmate leaves, one pinnate, and, visually, they have the same overall look as the Helleborus. I need a contrasting leaf. Iris foetidissima would work, but I don’t know how well it flowers in complete shade.

We have a huge slug problem. And I don’t want anything taller than 0.5m. No ferns. There’s too many of them around.

Any ideas?

Oh, thank you, Errol! My Iris foetidissima are more like 50cm, which would be OK.

I've got some white bog-standard impatiens at the front of the border at the moment (in pots on plastic where I'm trying to curb the spread of some persicaria and Filipendula) they probably get some morning sun. They're really not at all reminiscent of Impatiens glandulifera, I don't have the slightest urge to attack these plants yelling 'die, alien scum'. They're a bit meh though, and not perennial so wouldn't bother except as a short term stopgap. I'll probably put in some more astilbes and brunnera Jack Frost.

I've no idea what I (mis)typed that autocorrect turned into 'rhetorical'. From the context, 'the'.

I’m more after a herbaceous perennial than a climber, although the jasmine only climbs if you tie it in - it could look quite nice kept short and allowed to sucker. Keeping the winter theme, I could get another Midwinter Fire. Or persuade my Rubus cockburniensis to move in, although that does get far too tall and would entangle itself in the holly. Ruscus would live there, but is as vicious as the gooseberry.

I have Ajuga and Pulmonaria in abundance elsewhere. And Helleborus foetidus is a bit too similar to Rodgersia in overall look, and would look sad compared to the nearby H orientalis. I’ve got it on its own in the “woodland” along with some Epimediums.

Euphorbia robbiae would love it, but is far too invasive for me-to risk it. I’m having enough trouble controlling it in the front

Jealous! I tried and failed with Jack Frost. The spring growth didn’t get past the slugs

Vinca?

I'm new to gardening but have a shady bed with clay soil that I planted last year... the astilbe is growing well and providing ground cover and gorgeous colour.

Also astrantia seems to be happy, I've got a mix of white and pink and they've spread and flowered beautifully.

Mine get a couple of hours of sun in the morning but I believe they're both meant to cope with full shade.

Oh yes, I've got some astrantias too, I put them in last year when it got too dry for the astilbes.

I've got toomuch of that too, doesn't seem to flower much in the shade.

Bleeding heart cope fine with slugs IME

Probably not tall enough for the spot, but I have a variegated deadnettle absolutely thriving under some trees and shrubs
I also have some crocosmia and japanese anemones which are growing, flowering and slugproof ; they do flop rather in the shade but if you can support them might go with white japanese anemones?

Also second the suggestion of astrantia, i have one directly under an apple tree that seems very happy and no floppier than the one in the sun

Not tall enough but I do need some more

Yes, I’ve got both of those. Astilbe seems to do a bit better than Astrantia which holds on in shade rather than flourishes. But I was worried that Astrantia leaves look like a flimsier edition of Reodgersia/Hellebore and I wanted a contrast of shape. Could go for colour contrast with a purple leaved Astrantia.

I’ve seen it very happy in considerable sun in hedgerows in S Portugal. Sounds like one of those “shade lovers” which actually simply tolerate shade in exchange for the lack of competition.

Yeah, my Astrantias are fine under the apple trees, but this is deeper shade than that and from experience elsewhere I think they’ll struggle. My shade crocosmias flower nowhere near as well as the one I have which gets some sun.

I was wondering if there were any iris foetidessima cultivars which are a bit less dull - there's a variegated one which might be worth trying?

www.claireaustin-hardyplants.co.uk/products/iris-foetidissima-variegata

“I’ve yet to see it flower” says Claire Austin That’s a shame. I love Iris foetidissima flowers, that lovely combination of muted pale purple and orange. Same combination as you get with Lonicera henryii

This thread has made me look at my astrantias and then at some in nice gardens we've been visiting this weekend (Newby hall and Harlow Carr) and think that between the shade and the competition from the astilbes maybe they'd be happier elsewhere.

And I'm also thinking I need more but different astilbes, some of the deeper reds and magentas.

Fatsia japonican seems to live in these conditions.

I can't disagree with any of that! Though in deep shade, white Astilbes are stunning. The only one I don't like is the meh pink, the only that's the colour of pink (rather than red or white) Red Valerian.

I've been watching a woodland Astrantia for 10-15 years. It's still there, butit isn't getting any bigger, and it doesn't always flower.

One of my Astrantias is currently getting drowned by a huge Thalictrum, and that needs sorting out. As does the Digitals ferruginosa which is also getting swamped.

Yes, but it's worth growing only for its leaves, and the overall effect won't be that different from the Rodgersia. If it's just a matter of covering the ground, Tellima would do the job well.Or Enchanter's Nightshade

Just wanted to say thank you for everyone who has contributed to this thread. Even though I've batted down all your suggestions, it's been really helpful in helping me think,

At the moment I've decided to raise the crown of the swamp cypress (sorry, I didn't mention that, did I?) and later the holly, and that'll increase the ground level light level. Then I think a Fothergilla with its beautiful fluffy white flowers in spring and it's stunning red autumn colour. I've already got one, but this one will be more visible. And if I've got room, a Cornus "Midwinter Fire" to contrast with the white stemmed Rubus cockberniensis that's made its way into the area. Then see what I've got left in the way of ground that needs covering.