landscaper quote, are we being unreasonable

[Woodsview]

Hi
we moved into a new build and knew the garden would need sorting out. We had two guys round, both used by some people who we have met on our development as was a good starting point, one gave an eye watering estimate, the second one still a decent amount but just within our budget. The first one gave a detailed estimate and the second a few bullet points in an email after chasing him, he thought he was the only up for the job and sent a figure by email. As we had seen the second guys work and it was really good we felt this was the better option.

He promised a plan of what we wanted and detailed description of the work. We have been waiting for 4 weeks to get this detail and the plan was just squares on a tiny page emailed across, we keep getting stalled with he is very busy, he has asked us to accept the figures and he will then send the plan. He has also said he could originally do August but now said it’s likely to be September.

We haven’t been asked to pay anything upfront as a deposit which is good but we have advised we can’t progress without some detail on the work, some breakdown ie patio and separate seating area but we have been told he can’t break down or his cost as he does matrix working and the plan will come once we accept the figures. He sent examples of what he sends once the quote is accepted which to be honest is still very basic.

we spoke to the lady who had her garden done and she said he was the same with her and push him but he’s not giving on anything, my husband said that as his work is good that it might be worth going with this as trying to find a decent landscaper isn’t at all easy without recommendations but I’m panicking as we are talking a lot of money here, you could buy a medium sized car with this quote and it’s not a big garden but because it’s a new build it needs quite a bit of groundwork and if I’m honest it’s took us years to save this money.

am I being unreasonable to expect details, at the moment it’s a bit like going for a meal and having the menu say
potato for starter
beef for main
apple for dessert
theres a total for each which includes labour but nothing else, no description whatsoever and no plan to support this.

we explained we need the detail so we don’t assume everything is included and then when he starts there’s more costs.

He's bonkers, why bond earth would anyone commit to paying a price, I assume thousands without knowing what they are agreeing to? Get some more people round for quotes.

I wonder if he’s been previously screwed over by spending time working on and sending a plan, and the customer taking and using his plan without using his services?

It will be this. Basically he’s not willing to invest any more time into your quote until he knows he’s getting some money for it. Which in all honesty is fair enough. We did similar with our landscaper and we worked out all the finer details later.

Hi
sorry my post was a bit detailed, we did tell him he had the job and we accepted his basic estimate costs, this is sorting the final quote detail stage, to ensure we knew we had everything covered we asked for detail, so for example there are two small patio areas, he has just put patio in his email. Literally a few words in an email. We used his supplier for choosing the pavers and sent him photos but nothing, no reference.

Walk away. He is showing you how he works and it doesn’t suit you.
find a person who you feel will communicate with you.
it’s your money and your garden.

if you are already concerned then how does this not get stressful?

Perhaps in the past people have used his design quotes/drawings as a basis to search for other quotes so he does the spadework but does not get the contract?

We have recently had our garden landscaped (yes, another newbuild) and agree it can be an awful load of money (as you say, the price of a medium sized car) and ideally you want a detailed plan & breakdown before you commit.
In our case my OH produced the drawings and after some tweaking by the landscaper (what will/won't work, alternative solution etc) a price was set.

Thanks Ihatethecold, it’s true I’m stressed already as to be honest expected a bit more especially considering the other quote was so thorough but v expensive. This may be his style and he doesn’t budge.
I agree nourishinghandscream about the plan, I actually did a sketch when he first visited as we had spent a few months thinking about what we wanted before getting anyone around.

To be honest, I’m in two minds, we have a groundsman we use, very large garden and he’s done a lot of work, close to 50k, and more to come, he also does the neighbours. That’s why we first got him in.

He walks round, agrees and discusses the work, and sends me a text with the costs, and a basic description, like clear site, lay patio, remove waste. that’s it. His companies work is second to none, and the attention to detail is outstanding.

my daughter is a little like you, she’s like when don’t you get a detailed breakdown, why don’t you have plans drawn up, but to be honest, the work is excellent and when the men are on site we often see how it’s developing and make minor tweaks, they also suggest stuff and I’m happy with the verbal agreement as he is completely trust worthy.

s way round it, is you detail it out, then send it to him saying x work for x price.

so I’m not sure I’m saying don’t get it, I am saying, for me it isn’t a big deal.

You would be better paying for the design and the landscaping as two separate things. My experience is that, if a client is given a plan and detailed estimate, they will try to source cheaper material and take the plan elsewhere.

Good landscapers are like gold dust and can pick and choose their clients and how they do business.

No matter how good this Company is, I suspect you may already have irritated him. Landscaper is very expensive and you will have no peace of mind unless you are completely happy with the person doing the work.

I would not pay more than £1000 for the plan. Some landscapers will deduct the cost of the plan if you go ahead with their design.

Hope this helps

Just to add , we found our landscaper through the Marshalls catalogue. We did not like the ones from our local area so went a bit further afield.

Thanks guys, it’s good to get a different viewpoint, I think he set an expectation by saying he would send specific detail but his idea of detail is different to ours. I think a chat on the phone of a few key things may be the way forward and then take it from there. 😀

Also op. You can’t underestimate the power of a recommendation. And seeing good work.

i think it’s fine also for you to detail it on an email and get his agreement.

I think some just really don’t like this admin type work, they are just really busy, they verbally agree and then quote/do it. Of course some are cowboys and I can honestly say giving a load of detail is not a sure fire sign the person isn’t one.

we have a lot of experience with things like this, an example being two tree surgeons, one details it down to the letter, sends it through on letter headed paper, all very nice, one tells me a price when he visits, or WhatsApps it after. No detail. Just a price.

the second one is brilliant, and half the price of the first.

Just as an idea, if he's too busy, could you document what you are expecting? Perhaps that way you can ensure there is no miscommunication?

To be honest I think he has overstretched himself, what he says to us in person isn’t then what we get back in writing, he said he doesn’t have time to read his emails he leaves this mostly to his partner and has admitted he’s getting jobs mixed up and that he’s running over. Problem is when you hear this it makes you want the summary detail to be sure. We just need to make a decision.

trust your gut!

If it’s any help, we paid just under £4k to have our front and back garden professionally designed including Birds Eye view scale layouts, colour plans, and a 3D walkthrough video. Plus full costings.

we had to pay about £800 for a topographical survey beforehand to another company.

you might think that’s OTT but you really need to see what it will look like in full colour. I once made the mistake of just going for black and white pictures and totally hated it after it was installed. Wasted so much money trying to fix it.

i even hated the shape of it when viewed from upstairs windows, but ground floor view was nice.

think carefully about materials. Avoid dark slabs or shingle if you like walking bare foot in certain areas (or just nipping out to the bbq, herb pots, bins)

think carefully about where the sun falls at different times of day and what you will use that space for.

and paths - I see so many gardens with garden rooms that are used all year round with no nicely flowing path to get to it when the lawn has turned to a muddy bog!

Find another landscaper. I live in a remote, sparsely populated area of the country, and there are several companies around who would give us a quote if we wanted to landscape a small garden. There will almost certainly be some more where you live. Don't go down the sunk costs route - find someone new. The current guy sounds like a nightmare.

This would be a red flag for me. If he can’t keep track of his admin how is he going to keep track of the costs.

It could be this but while I sympathise I’m not sure it is reasonable. Many industries have to “ pitch” for work that they never end up getting the contract for

He is clearly busy so it is working for him. If his method of working doesn't work for you use someone else.

That’s a really good idea .

Also, sometimes people are really good at the landscaping but their written skills/ diagram skills are a struggle for them. If this is the case you will let him dodge that, which could be what is putting him off.

We have walked away. This is his style which works for him but not for us, I appreciate everyone has their own viewpoint and thanks for the posts. Some valid points, cheers

i think you are doing the right thing. You have been given a valuable lesson without spending any money. You want a landscaper who is willing to give you an honest cost breakdown and an honest time scale.

I wouldn’t use him , I like to know exactly what is going on and cannot work in this type of haphazard way .

I agree with previous posts- I think landscapers don’t like the admin and that drawing up plans/ specs takes a long time and the customer may then take the design and get someone else to do the work. The suggestion of paying for a design if you want that assurance is a good one, but it might be that when the spade is in the ground the design might not be possible (I have been landscaping a small part of my garden and had to adapt as we go).

if you’ve seen and like his work I’d be minded to stick with him - it’s so rare to be able to see a traders work in real life and you know he has been able to create what you want on a new build plot (which the soil is often really compacted).