Plum tree never fruiting

[KarmenPQZ]

I bought myself a ‘self fertile’ opal plum tree in 2018. The website said ‘For the heaviest crops it is best grown with another variety.’ So I wasn’t expecting massive crops but I was ok with that as really we have a very small garden and very few nearby trees as its tiny inner city gardens. However we have had nothing. Every year we get an abundance of blossom and I’m always hopefully that it just needed time to mature. But yet another year and we have no fruits at all. I remembered this year to take a picture. I’m really disappointed that I’ve invested 5 years in this tree. Do I now have to go to the hassle of digging up a mature tree and replanting with an actual self fertile one (partially or totally) or is there anything I can do?

photo from 19 March showing the blossom

You could try protecting it with fleece next year when it blossoms in case the frost is killing them off before they have chance to be fertilized. Also because there aren't many insects around in March pollinate the flowers yourself by brushing each one with a paintbrush. Self fertile trees still need the pollen transferring between the flowers to fertilize them. It's a good sign you're getting so much blossom. Plant plenty of early spring flowers to encourage the first bees to stick around too.

There is a rhyme "plant plums for your sons and damsons for your grandsons" so I assume the trees have to be quite mature to fruit?

All fruit trees take a while to get going, and I think for plums it's usually 10 years or so. Not as bad as strawberry trees, which take about 50 years

When we had a plum tree I think it took around 10 years before it produced any fruit and around 13 or 14 years before it produced many fruit / fruit that tasted nice. It then produced tons and tons and tons. We had plums coming out of our ears. We had to make vats of jams and chutney to use them up.

Oh goodness maybe I’m just being impatient in expecting it to fruit after 5 years. I bought it as a set with cherry and pear which are both producing a great amount of fruit (although also an apple which I managed to kill through neglect… def my fault). And it’s grown so well it’s obviously happy and healthy so I was surprised not to get even a single fruit last year and then pretty frustrated not a single one this year.

so is the blossom not true blossom then? I did go round with a small paintbrush to transfer some pollen hence why I think it’s infertile?

My 2018 self was definitely envisioning myself making the cats and cats of jam everyone always talks about for plum trees by now!

The old sayings about planting plums for your sons relate to trees grown on their own roots, which take far longer to mature. These days, it would be unusual to buy a self-rooted tree - commercially available trees from any reputable buyer will be grafted, meaning they should fruit much sooner. They should certainly not take ten years!

I would be taking the matter to the original nursery, TBH. They might say it's not their problem, but they should at least provide you with an explanation.

The things I would say from the picture:

• it does look rather stunted for a five-year-old tree. It's not 'mature' by any means (nor would you expect it to be at five years, but it's still small).
• I wonder about the orientation - plums are so early to blossom that they can much more easily be damaged by frost than cherries or apples. South facing sites are good, but if you have an east-facing site, you can be tricked into thinking it's lovely and sunny and forget that the early sun on cold or frosted flowers can be a real issue.

@SarahAndQuack I am very relieved about that as I planted a plum tree before I knew and was very annoyed when I realised I might not get any plums

It's only tiny. It needs time to establish a bit

Yes ok that’s more in keeping with what the shop had on their site (fully mature in 5 years I think is what they said). Annoyingly I emailed them about a month ago and they didn’t reply. I sent a chaser last week but also not heard back hence why I posted here.

should have also made clear it is grafter on a dwarf rootstock and isn’t expected to get much bigger. As you can see from the pic my garden is tiny so no space for any full sized fruit trees.

we barely get frosts where we are in London and there was certainly nothing this year after January. It’s probably south south west facing and I can’t imagine that’s the issue.

I will wait maybe another week and chase the shop again I guess but anything else anyone could think of please do let me know!

i just find it really hard to believe I haven’t even had a lone fruit in all this time. I think within 2 years I had a very small crop on the cherry so the fact that’s I’ve had absolutely nothing at all makes me think it’s just infertile 🤷‍♀️

Following with interest. We just planted an Opal plum on dwarf rootstock a couple of months ago. It had very few flower and no sign of plums, but is only two years old. Didn't realise it might take years to see fruit!

I have a very similar story. I bought three fruit trees, grafted onto dwarf rootstock, about four years ago - a cherry, a plum and an apple. We have loads of cherries (but the minute they ripen, the birds eat them all, I need to cover it this year), some apples (not that nice, and definitely not the eating type that it was described as) and no plums at all despite a lovely amount of blossom. We’re in a London borough too.

I'd be tempted to get another plum tree in a pot just to act as a pollinator, and see if it Kickstarts it into action.

The past two years have been quite poor growing years - a very wet year last year with less sun than usual and a drought year the year before that, so it might just be taking its time to fruit. Everything in my garden takes longer to grow because of tree competition and heavy clay soil which you probably also have.

That's a shame they've not replied.

All plum trees you buy are grafted onto dwarf rootstock. I think you perhaps mean it's a patio variety? TBH I don't rate them in general, and they can be quite hungry, too.

Are you sure it doesn't frost where you are? IME people often underestimate frost risk. My brother was a gardener in London for years and often had clients swear blind that it never frosted with them, but TBH, it did - it's just that often, people don't notice a mild frost as they associate frost with a visible grey rime on grass or even a frozen car window. But a much less obvious frost can still do the damage, and certainly, pollinating insects will be discouraged by low temperatures.

Cherries flower much later than plums, so this absolutely could be the issue.

Hello KarmenPQZ,

Having looked at your picture there doesn’t appear to be anything wrong with your tree and if it is Plum ‘Opal’ you should have plums by now.

Thompson and Morgan state you should have had some fruit two years after planting and best yields after four which you tree is well passed.

https://www.thompson-morgan.com/p/plum-opal/cww3369TM

There is a possibility that at the growers you tree was wrongly labelled/ packaged as Plum ‘Opal’ and is in fact not and is another tree of some description that needs a pollinator. I have seen this happen with bulbs and seeds which is always a possibility due to the volumes they deal with.

After some years since planting I think it’s time to replace it. Having a wall in your garden you could grow for one that is trained in the shape of a fan.

In relation to going back to where you purchased your plum tree quote the Consumer Rights Act 2015 specifically section 11 which states goods must be as described and after six years it is reasonable to expect your plum tree described as ‘Opal’ to have fruited by now. The seller may also sit up and listen if you can provide proof of purchase. If you purchased you fruit trees on a credit card and the total was over £100.01 you could try a section 75 claim for breach of contract.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act-aKJYx8n5KiSl

Finally I am unable to see from your picture does your tree have any suckers coming from the base of the tree. If there at these should be removed. I did know of someone with a tree that was producing plenty of flowers but no plums that had a quantity of suckers coming from below the graft union once these were removed with two years it was fruiting.

https://www.rhs.org.uk/plants/types/trees/removing-suckers-trees-shrubs

Happy gardening
TheSustainableGardener 🧑‍🌾

@SarahAndQuack What defines frost? I find it hard to get me head round that you can have a frost when the air temperature doesn’t get down as far as freezing.

I don't think you can? But often, people say there was no frost because they don't see a thick white coat on the grass - either because the frost was light, or because the sun melted it before people looked outside. Sun on frozen flowers is actually more damaging than a hard frost that thaws more slowly.

Yes - the Camellia flowers on the east side of the bush …

my personal “proper frost” indicator is the nasturtiums

Yes very true about the frost. And last year was particularly cold so that could have been a factor. But I just don’t think it’s that on its own. And no suckers either from below the graft.

I actually think I emailed the wrong nursery tho. I couldn’t find the order email but had the label from the tree which has a product number on. Checked Van meuwen and T&M and it returned a match in the former so I emailed them. But actually I think it’s T&M so I’ve emailed them now. I think VM should have still replied saying they have no record of my order but let’s hope T&M get back to me.

I’ve been debating buying a plum tree in a pot to see if it helps. But that one could take a couple of years to bloom. I just have no space in my garden for another pot without it being a trip hazard. Plus that’ll be another £30 or so.

thanks for all the advise tho I do really appreciate it. And been great to have an outlet to debrief the plum in. So sad I’ve committed 5 years to it! Does anyone know how hard it would be to dig it out? It’s at least 10cm diameter at the root and I don’t think I could face it!

Is T&M Thompson and Morgan? I could be totally wrong, but I always assumed they were more of a gardens retailer than a nursery.

I can't imagine it'd be tricky to dig out. You just need patience - dig a spade in, pull it back, wiggle it around, do the same on all sides, and eventually you will find where there's some movement, and with luck you can snap the main root. If you're really struggling and it's better rooted in than you'd hoped, you can always get a saw in there, since you're not looking to move it anyway.

Hello again KarmenPQZ,

I think you will only know when you actually go to dig it up 10cm is not that wider diameter I have see plum trees with a bigger girth. What you could do is put some pressure on the trunk to see if there is any flexibility in it. If you decide to remove your plum tree cut the tree down leaving about two feet of the trunk that way you have something to leaver the rootball back and forth when digging it out.

You may want to give your plum tree one last chance by trying the following. I did hear Mathew Wilson one of the panelist’s of Gardeners Question Time recount a true story on Gardeners Question Time about Geoffrey Smith a Gardeners’ World presenter between 1980-1982 who apparently had a tree that would not do its thing. Geoffrey gave it one last chance and in a last ditch attempt to get it to do its thing left a running chainsaw on the ground beside it. Apparently it worked as the following year it sprung into action.

Happy gardening
TheSustainableGardener

It isn't just frosts that harm early blossoming fruit trees. Rainy wet days mean no pollen gets moved about.

I never only buy one fruit tree unless I know I have pollinators nearby to be honest. Even self fertile trees do better with another close by.

My 3 year old plum tree is loaded with fruit. I'm growing it as a fan against a wall though so it is hard pruned every summer. The fruit comes from the little short bits that have been cut off rather from long branches. Google how and when to prune as plums can get a disease if you prune them at the wrong time

Don't worry. I have a plum tree bought in 2006. The last 2 years have been fantastic. Before that awful..In fact that reminds me I need to make chutney!

Thanks all for the input. I now have a response from T&M and they are sending me an espalier Victoria plum to try to help with cross pollination. Somewhat annoyingly it’s not going to be delivered til April 2025 so it will be another year with no fruit next year…. And possibly even the year after whilst the grafted tree gets established. However it does at least give me 9 months to work out where the heck it’s going to go in the garden. Where there’s a will there’s a way right?!?!