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Gardening

Find tips and tricks to make your garden or allotment flourish on our Gardening forum.

Rose pruning

65 replies

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 18/11/2023 12:27

I've just discovered Jenny 'Niff' Barnes and her pruning and training methods. Thinking of introducing some of her rose training ideas into the ones I care for. I really like the idea of achieving a profusion of flowers in this way and think this will be more effective than my previously used methods.

https://www.gardenista.com/posts/ask-expert-jenny-barnes-how-train-roses/

Ask the Expert: Jenny Barnes' Way with Roses - Gardenista

The question, "Will you do me a Niff?" is one that head gardeners are hearing a lot these days: garden owners, entranced by the pruning technique that @nif

https://www.gardenista.com/posts/ask-expert-jenny-barnes-how-train-roses

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Clabony · 18/11/2023 17:39

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 18/11/2023 16:13

If you're in Oxfordshire give me a shout!

Sadly, a very long way away up North.

That was a lovely read, and a little YouTube clip! I'm cross with myself for having cut back some roses now when I could have swirled them around.

However, I've still got a mystery younger white climber not yet touched. Bought in a local lost label sale. I'll wait for a calmer day, and my new pruning gloves to arrive, and have a go.

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 18/11/2023 17:48

@Jezzballs2000 there are some excellent pruning guides done from RHS gardens that are better than any explanation I might make.

The main rule with roses is to start by removing the 'Three Ds', dead, diseased and damaged growth, then you look at misplaced stems and the overall shape of the rose.

For timing, I prune shrub roses in late winter; ramblers I remove the long whips after flowering and then remove more in winter once the leaves have fallen; climbers are done in late winter.

Shrub roses:

Climbing roses:

Rambling roses:

Pruning shrub roses with Ian le Gros of RHS Hyde Hall

Ian le Gros, Curator of the RHS Garden at Hyde Hall, continues his guide to pruning roses. This time he tackles shrub roses with the sensible motto "Think ca...

https://youtu.be/AP5fpgo2Dig?feature=shared

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Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 18/11/2023 17:54

Sadly, a very long way away up North.

That's a shame!

I've still got roses to prune where I can play with the swirly stems and am looking forward to it.

Very curious about the mystery roses! If you post a pic of the flower and habit of growth, someone should be able to identify them.

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angelico53 · 18/11/2023 18:34

My roses were lovely this year; one evening I counted 150+ blooms in my postage stamp garden on a new estate (not counting patio roses).

But I was battling black spot from about August, and constantly worried about 7-leafers. For example, I cut Gabriel Oak right back in Oct, cos it was being eaten by (I think) sawfly. I couldn't see what was eating it so I cut it back and (the shame) sprayed its fragrant arse. Now all the new growth has 7 leaves. Grr. I've no idea what to do now.

?

angelico53 · 18/11/2023 18:49

From the left, Woolerton Old Hall (climber), Gertrude J (shrub), same as climber, Freedom (the yellow HT) and Crown Princess Margarita.

Rose pruning
Jezzballs2000 · 18/11/2023 21:03

@Vegemiteandhoneyontoast thank you!!

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 19/11/2023 08:20

angelico53 · 18/11/2023 18:34

My roses were lovely this year; one evening I counted 150+ blooms in my postage stamp garden on a new estate (not counting patio roses).

But I was battling black spot from about August, and constantly worried about 7-leafers. For example, I cut Gabriel Oak right back in Oct, cos it was being eaten by (I think) sawfly. I couldn't see what was eating it so I cut it back and (the shame) sprayed its fragrant arse. Now all the new growth has 7 leaves. Grr. I've no idea what to do now.

?

Sawfly don't do more than cosmetic damage and can be ignored. The rose will grow more leaves if they're needed.

My horticulture teacher also ran a nursery and I asked her once what she did about things like sawfly or aphids and she said 'Nothing, I ignore them' and she just waited for them to go away, which they eventually did. All the plants there certainly looked to be in rude good health. She said the main thing is to feed, water and prune, but otherwise leave things be and let the local ecosystem find the balance. The more plants, the more insects, many of them beneficial. The birds help too and sparrows are excellent at cleaning roses of aphids and parasitic wasps, ladybirds and lacewings make short work of other pests.

Suckers generally have paler leaves and stems than the grafted variety and fewer thorns. Twist them off at the base rather than cutting, as this will make it less likely they'll regrow, then wait and hope for the best. Roses are pretty tough customers and aren't easy to destroy. It's only really if the graft union fails that they die.

Black spot has been an issue with this wet year. At work I'll use a fungicide but at home I just remove and bin the leaves and clear away any that fall.

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MereDintofPandiculation · 19/11/2023 10:22

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 18/11/2023 12:27

I've just discovered Jenny 'Niff' Barnes and her pruning and training methods. Thinking of introducing some of her rose training ideas into the ones I care for. I really like the idea of achieving a profusion of flowers in this way and think this will be more effective than my previously used methods.

https://www.gardenista.com/posts/ask-expert-jenny-barnes-how-train-roses/

That’s how I’ve always trained my tayberries! Mainly to spread the fruit out, but it looks nice in winter

MereDintofPandiculation · 19/11/2023 10:25

Suckers generally have paler leaves and stems than the grafted variety and fewer thorns. Twist them off at the base rather than cutting, as this will make it less likely they'll regrow, then wait and hope for the best. Also usually more leaflets to each leaf.

MereDintofPandiculation · 19/11/2023 10:29

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 18/11/2023 15:22

I came across some stuff online about 'nicking and notching', which is usually used on fruit trees to increase or decrease growth. For increasing growth the advice was to take out a notch just above a dormant node, which tricks the plant into putting out new stems. After making the notch I leaned the stem over to encourage sprouting. It worked and several fat, thorny new stems erupted from the main one.

I heard about nicking and notching recently in the context of apple trees. GQT,Flowerdew, I think.

MereDintofPandiculation · 19/11/2023 10:36

My horticulture teacher also ran a nursery and I asked her once what she did about things like sawfly or aphids and she said 'Nothing, I ignore them' and she just waited for them to go away, which they eventually did. I knew someone who simply moved a bird feeder into any bush that had a big aphid attack.

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 19/11/2023 10:42

Good idea about moving the bird feeder. I've moved ladybird larvae onto plants with aphids and that works too.

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Clabony · 19/11/2023 11:44

Sometimes, it's the simple ideas that are the most effective. I think an extra bird feeder in the front garden will help with the pests next year. Also very prone to sawfly this summer.

MereDintofPandiculation · 20/11/2023 11:19

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 19/11/2023 10:42

Good idea about moving the bird feeder. I've moved ladybird larvae onto plants with aphids and that works too.

Having been pesticide free in the garden for 30 years, I find things sort themselves out. For example, early this year I noticed big masses of aphids enveloping a number of new shoots. But when, a month or so later, I kept finding ladybirds in the conservatory, it was taking me ages to find a plant to transfer them to which had even a few aphids.

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 20/11/2023 15:07

I agree, MereDintofPandiculation, things do sort themselves out. It's the early in the year aphid masses that I transfer larvae to, before the beneficial wildlife have really got going.

There's a Philadelphus here that sometimes gets infested in early summer but by mid-summer it's covered in ladybird and larvae, all getting stuck into the aphids. Fascinating to watch them hatch out.

Rose pruning
Rose pruning
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Clabony · 21/11/2023 09:00

Is it ok to prune my shrub roses after Christmas or will it be too late? I've about six with some lovely hips on, and they look so lovely near a Red Sentinel crab apple.

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 21/11/2023 09:38

I usually start pruning in the new year as soon as the plants show growth and that works fine.

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ErrolTheDragon · 21/11/2023 09:55

What a wonderful thread, thanks!

Clabony · 21/11/2023 10:08

Thanks @Vegemiteandhoneyontoast well that's good to know, I've been doing it too early and losing the joy of the rose hips.

BestIsWest · 21/11/2023 10:18

Just reading about infestations. Was wondering about ants. During the great aphid invasion earlier this year (never seen so many) some of our roses had ants nests round their bases. I know they feed off the waste produced by the greenfly but do they damage the roses?

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 21/11/2023 10:35

Ants farm aphids for their excreted honeydew. The RHS have wise words of advice, which basically amounts to 'ignore them'.

https://www.rhs.org.uk/biodiversity/ants

Ants / RHS Gardening

Ants / RHS Gardening

Ants are abundant and important insects in many gardens. Although ants can cause concern they are an important part of biodiversity.

https://www.rhs.org.uk/biodiversity/ants

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BestIsWest · 21/11/2023 11:14

Ignore them I shall then!

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 21/11/2023 11:39

Thinking on it, I don't entirely ignore ants because if I don't use repellent I get bitten by them. Being a magnet for every biting insect in the vicinity of wherever I am, and having trialled every repellent I can find, I'm happy to say that Smidge is the best repellent ever in the history of repellents. It keeps away all biting insects, even ants, and has been life changing for me. It even smells nice.

https://www.smidgeup.com

Smidge - The UK’s No.1 Midge Repellent

Developed in Scotland, Smidge is scientifically proven to provide instant, sweat-proof protection from all biting insects for up to 8 hours.

https://www.smidgeup.com

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MereDintofPandiculation · 22/11/2023 12:04

My ants have been instrumental in spreading my Cyclamen coum from an original 3 plants to hundreds spreading across the entire terrace.

BestIsWest · 22/11/2023 12:12

Wow that sounds lovely @MereDintofPandiculation. Assuming you wanted more of course.