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Gardening

Find tips and tricks to make your garden or allotment flourish on our Gardening forum.

Original poster

Lawn disaster - please help!

58 replies

Catabogus · 24/04/2023 22:04

We had new turf laid 2 years ago in our new garden and it took well to start with. The problem is that the garden is north facing and very shady with lots of large trees. In no time at all the lawn was full of bare patches.

I have reseeded/filled patches several times with “extra tough grass seed”, “shade-tolerant grass seed” and the like - but it’s now worse than ever. At the far end there is more mud than grass, with just a few clumps of tough-looking grass like islands in an expanse of brown, and even the weeds/moss don’t grow (frankly I’d be happy to have them since at least they’d be green!)

I’d be happy to have something other than grass (what though?) but it needs to be able to tolerate two small children running all over it daily and occasionally kicking a ball around. I can’t really face reseeding it 4 times a year (which is apparently what our next door neighbour does).

Any suggestions or ideas appreciated! Thanks very much.

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Irisandillies · 24/04/2023 22:11

Are you sure you don’t have lawn grubs?

they destroy the lawn but it’s the birds which make rhe most damage, and turn it to mud.

id not expect it to turn to mud otherwise , and grass seed for shaded areas is usually very efficient

https://www.rhs.org.uk/biodiversity/chafer-grubs-in-lawns

Chafer grubs in lawns / RHS Gardening

Chafer grubs in lawns / RHS Gardening

A combination of some species of chafer beetle grub and larger animals that feed on them can cause extensive lawn damage.

https://www.rhs.org.uk/biodiversity/chafer-grubs-in-lawns

Irisandillies · 24/04/2023 22:12

Sorry I should say rhe birds do the damage as they scratch the lawn up to get to thr grubs so they can eat them,

Soozikinzii · 24/04/2023 22:17

Green thumb are very good and not expensive at all our medium sized lawn is £20 a treatment and there's 3 or 4 treatments a year . It's a Franchise and I think there's one in most areas.

userxx · 24/04/2023 22:28

Soozikinzii · 24/04/2023 22:17

Green thumb are very good and not expensive at all our medium sized lawn is £20 a treatment and there's 3 or 4 treatments a year . It's a Franchise and I think there's one in most areas.

Really, I always thought they'd be expensive. Is it worth doing ?

APseudonymNeeded · 24/04/2023 22:33

I was going to say grubs.
go out at night with a torch and see if you can see any. I’ve just watched a video on TT of people picking them out of the mud patch that was their lawn, I had no clue they were such a big problem!

Original poster
Catabogus · 24/04/2023 22:34

I’ve never seen chafer grubs - would I know if I had them? The damage is by far the worst in the areas under the trees so I suspect it’s the dry shade that’s the real issue.

What is Green Thumb? I’m willing to pay vastly more than £20 if they can sort my lawn!

OP posts:
Original poster
Catabogus · 24/04/2023 22:34

Ooh right, OK, I will look into chafer grubs. To be fair, we seem to have every other sort of pest so it wouldn’t surprise me.

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Rainbow1901 · 24/04/2023 22:36

Soozikinzii · 24/04/2023 22:17

Green thumb are very good and not expensive at all our medium sized lawn is £20 a treatment and there's 3 or 4 treatments a year . It's a Franchise and I think there's one in most areas.

This!!

We knocked down our garage and extended the garden and started from scratch by seeding. Green thumb have been brilliant in helping us to improve how it looks by applying weed killer and feeding the lawn. Two years on it's starting to look quite presentable. We are still seeding areas after raking out mossy bits but I would expect to do that with any lawn if you want it to look good.
Green thumb will be able to let you know if there are any suggestions for improving your lawn and if there are any bugs or whatever they will know.

Original poster
Catabogus · 24/04/2023 22:38

I’ve just been reading about chafer grubs - I don’t think it’s this. We don’t have scratched up turf or obvious disturbances in the lawn. Just vast bare patches interspersed with thickets of grass.

OP posts:
Jellybean23 · 24/04/2023 22:52

Tree roots will take the nutrients from the soil. What type of tree are they? Have you tried feeding the 'lawn'?

Original poster
Catabogus · 24/04/2023 22:57

Lots of trees - birches, apples, plums, a cypress (not even attempting to grow grass under that one!), cotoneaster, damson, lilacs.

OP posts:
Original poster
Catabogus · 24/04/2023 22:58

And I’ve used lawn feed manure in pellet form as a feed, but nothing more than that. How else do I feed it please?

OP posts:
senua · 24/04/2023 23:00

Would having some of the trees pruned, and thus letting more light in, help with curing the problem.

Original poster
Catabogus · 24/04/2023 23:16

The trees have all been pruned! The tree specialist said that to take any more off would be irresponsible as it would risk damaging them - and I really don’t want that. One of the reasons we bought the house was the beautiful mature trees. I just didn’t realise grass wouldn’t grow happily underneath.

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neverknowinglyunreasonable · 24/04/2023 23:22

I can’t really face reseeding it 4 times a year (which is apparently what our next door neighbour does).

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

MardiBras · 24/04/2023 23:22

It could be Leatherjackets causing the bare patches. They are Daddy Long Legs/ Crane Fly larvae and eat the roots of the grass.

LadyGardenersQuestionTime · 24/04/2023 23:26

Can we have a photo? It does sound as if you have a lot of trees and the combination of shade and them nicking all the moisture and nutrients will make grass really struggle. Is the ground compacted too?

APseudonymNeeded · 24/04/2023 23:30

I just didn’t realise grass wouldn’t grow happily underneath.

What was there when you viewed/moved in?

Irisandillies · 25/04/2023 07:27

Just turn some of the soil over, where it is mud, you will see if grubs there.

grass grows happily under trees. You just need to drive round rhe uk to see it. My garden is surrounded with them from oak to chestnut, sycamores and pine in it and the grass is lush and green. Many parks you sit under the trees on the grass. Grass growing under trees is the norm.

if it’s mud and bare patches there is something else going on; so many folks think it’s trees, even though intellectually they know they see grass under massive trees often , when actually it’s something else.

DogInATent · 25/04/2023 07:57

At the far end there is more mud than grass, with just a few clumps of tough-looking grass like islands in an expanse of brown, and even the weeds/moss don’t grow
Have you got a drainage problem or another underlying soil problem? If the problem was just turfed over and not dealt with, then returfing was only ever a temporary solution.

Original poster
Catabogus · 25/04/2023 09:11

neverknowinglyunreasonable · 24/04/2023 23:22

I can’t really face reseeding it 4 times a year (which is apparently what our next door neighbour does).

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

That is certainly the truth (although green with bare patches even over there!)

OP posts:
Original poster
Catabogus · 25/04/2023 09:14

APseudonymNeeded · 24/04/2023 23:30

I just didn’t realise grass wouldn’t grow happily underneath.

What was there when you viewed/moved in?

When we moved in there was grass - and lots of weeds growing over dumped rubble and rubbish. The house had been neglected for a long time and it was all overgrown. But it was green, which made me think grass would grow.

I guess no one had been walking on it though. I do notice it’s the area where the children play or where we go to the shed or the washing line which is most bare, along with the parts under the trees. It’s as though it wears away when we walk on it.

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Original poster
Catabogus · 25/04/2023 09:15

DogInATent · 25/04/2023 07:57

At the far end there is more mud than grass, with just a few clumps of tough-looking grass like islands in an expanse of brown, and even the weeds/moss don’t grow
Have you got a drainage problem or another underlying soil problem? If the problem was just turfed over and not dealt with, then returfing was only ever a temporary solution.

I don’t think we have a soil or drainage problem. The trees and shrubs and perennials in the beds grow beautifully!

OP posts:
Original poster
Catabogus · 25/04/2023 09:20

Photos of the horror! A better bit (not under a tree) and a really bad bit (near a large tree).

Lawn disaster - please help!
Lawn disaster - please help!
OP posts:
MereDintofPandiculation · 25/04/2023 09:20

Irisandillies · 25/04/2023 07:27

Just turn some of the soil over, where it is mud, you will see if grubs there.

grass grows happily under trees. You just need to drive round rhe uk to see it. My garden is surrounded with them from oak to chestnut, sycamores and pine in it and the grass is lush and green. Many parks you sit under the trees on the grass. Grass growing under trees is the norm.

if it’s mud and bare patches there is something else going on; so many folks think it’s trees, even though intellectually they know they see grass under massive trees often , when actually it’s something else.

Depends on the density of the trees and how much light gets in under them. Isolated trees in parkland, yes you can sit on the grass underneath. Beech woodland, not so much.