What would cause this in an ash tree?

[bloodywhitecat]

We have a tree surgeon coming out but any ideas? It is at the base of the tree and goes a long way in. I am guessing the tree will need to come down before it falls down and, as it is next to the road and our electricity line, I am hoping it can come down soon. The leaves of the tree look healthy.

What does the rest of the trunk look like as it could be ash dieback! That causes quite big legions in the trunk

I will have a look in the morning but I can't think of anything remarkable on the trunk. It is a tree that has been home to a family of nuthatch so I hate to see it go.

Ash dieback I think sadly

Ash dieback is causing so many ash trees to be felled at the moment, it’s the worst fungus infection on such a large scale I’ve seen in years! It’s decimated ash populations, it’s far worse than Dutch elm disease and is now classed as a disease epidemic

I’d ask other landowners in your area if they have suffered and if so it’s definitely dieback, I’ve taken out about 15 at least in the area where I work and more still need felling!

I have two more ash trees in the garden along with three oaks and a couple of beech trees. I am guessing it could be bad news for all of the ashes?

If they are in close proximity to each other then Unfortunately it is a possibility yes, not all ash trees get the fungus but a large population do so keep an eye out for signs of the disease

Hmm from that picture I’m not sure those are the classic symptoms of ash die back - esp if the leaves are fine and assume you don’t have any diamond shaped lesions where the branches meet the trunk? To me it looks more like something has bored into the trunk (it looks almost like sawdust and a hole at the base of the trunk? Unless I’m reading the image wrong)? Pp are right though that ash dieback is so widespread that it may well be that but a tree surgeon should know, hopefully you get some answers!

Thank you. One is the immediate neighbour to this tree, the other is a bit further away. I remember Dutch elm disease, it felt like that decimated the tree population back then, it is sad that ash dieback is even worse.

It is exactly like sawdust, there is a lot of web-like stuff inside the tree too.

No diamond shape lesions that I can see.

If it is confirmed dieback by your tree surgeon then you need to report it to the forestry commission and actually I think they have a map on their website somewhere that shows you the areas of the country where it is currently infecting!

do any of the leaves look black or any other legions on the tree anywhere? It rots the tree on the inside and as the pp wrote above causes diamond shaped legions particularly where the branches / stems meet

That looks more like a nest of some sort and something is knawing the wood. Possibly ants or wasps?

I thought Ash dieback affected/showed on the leaves first hence the name dieback

Ahh you’ve just answered the post whilst I was typing regarding the legions! Hopefully it could just be because of animals or age but your tree surgeon will definitely know! You can’t miss it once you knows what your looking for 👍

I agree, I think it looks like the work of an animal, probably insects.

A few of the leaves start going black but not all of them and then you get the legions, it can be quick or slow to take hold but the legions are the big giveaway especially if you can’t see the canopy clearly

That does not look like a classic sympton of ash dieback - ash trees are not the most long lived of tree species anyway and have a tendency to rot from the inside out, generally at the base, when they are coming to the end of their natural lives, which, I suspect, is the case here.

Nuthatches excavate nest holes in tree trunks, exactly as woodpeckers do, and therefore choose trees where the timber is soft and decaying, another indicator that your tree is starting to die naturally through age alone. That basal rot is classic in aged ash trees.

But decaying trees, while stilll standing, are hugely important for many, many species of birds, insects animals and fungi so, unless it is creating a real risk, why not leave it as long as possible before considering having it felled?

That gives me hope, the only thing that worries me is that the tree is feet away from a road which often has heavy goods vehicles on it (and on a blind bend), it is also right next to our electricity supply. I would love to see it stand a while longer if it is safe to do so.

Most of the strength of the tree is in the outer cylinder (that’s why scaffold poles are hollow centred not solid) so you may be ok, especially if you go for an arboriculturalist with a focus on growing trees, rather than someone whose focus is timber.

Ash die back - you can see bare twigs sticking out from the canopy, and the tree has a tendency to hang onto its keys. Symptoms more pronounced in dry conditions.

If it is confirmed dieback by your tree surgeon then you need to report it to the forestry commission Really? Still? It’s just about ubiquitous now, they’ll be swamped with notifications.

“Legions”? You have Roman soldiers in your ash tree?! Am I missing something here, or did you mean lesions?

Tree surgeon confirms it is a mite that has caused by the damage, he said it could stand for 20 years or it could come down in the next storm. Given it's proximity to the road and power lines he advised felling it along with a second ash that is heavily affected by bracket fungus.

Oh no

Does it have to be totally felled or could you leave an eight foot stump and get ivy or clematis to climb over it? My mum left a 10 foot stump with an elm tree and it ended up with so much wildlife using it including a woodpecker.

That's a brilliant idea! Thank you. I will ask them when I speak to them next.

I'm not a mum (not even female) but I've joined MN temporarily to answer this question, because I do know about ash dieback (I've written several papers about it). Hope that's OK.

First, that isn't ash dieback. ADB is caused by a fungus which infects the leaves and then grows (very slowly) down the leaf stalk (rachis) and into the bark. The dying bark on infected twigs and shoots is typically orange-brown and clusters of shouts grow directly from the bark below the site of infection ("epicormic growth"). ADB doesn't cause massive damage to the heartwood as in the OP's photo.

Second, ash dieback normally progresses _very- slowly. It will take ten years or more to kill a mature ash tree. By contrast, Dutch elm disease killed 100 ft / 30m high elm trees in a few months.

Third, a minority of ash trees have moderate to high resistance to ash dieback. Perhaps 5% of the total but that's millions of trees. They'll survive long enough to produce another generation of seed, on which natural selection will act to produce a new population which is more resistant to ADB. In fact, we think this is already happening in the worst-affected counties. Here's a paper I wrote for non-specialists: jic.link/ashesfromashes. (If you want to know more, my email address is in that paper.)

Lastly, you no longer need to report ash dieback to the Forestry Commission because it's now spreading in the wild in every county in Britain and Ireland.

@PawBroon786 thank you for taking the trouble to reply. I've been grieving for the ash tree for a while now. It's good to learn there's hope.