planting in rubbish soil

[ilovesushi]

I have a south facing border along a sheltered wall. The soil is awful - dry, dusty, rubbley - and I can only get a spade in about half way down the blade. I have dug it over year after year, added compost, manure but it's still awful. The only things that I have planted that have thrived are a fig tree, a grape vine, bridal shower bush (that's at the end with better soil), black eyed susans and fennel. Salvia, yarrow, even lavender just dies.

In a hopeful mood I bought a load of perennials for this border, but I can hardly get the spade in. I think I just wasted my money and if I manage to dig a hole big enough around the roots, they will just die. I have another flower bed which is less sunny where the soil is decent that has some gaps, so I could put them there, but it is less visible from the house and I got these specific plants because they like full sun and I would be able to see them from the house. Arrrggghhh!

Just wanted to share my pain, but also what would you do?

I would create a raised bed or plant them into troughs or pots

Thanks @BlanketsBanned . What do I do about the fig and vine? I can't build up the soil around their trunks can I?

I have exactly the same issue OP. I've put a load of wildflower seeds in this year and they have done really well, actually looks nice. Everything else has died.

I'm thinking of adding in some mulch over winter to try and improve things.

How deep from front to back is the bed? Sometimes a wall will create a rainshadow and if the majority of your planting is in that zone not enough water will fall on the section nearest the wall.

Yes I dont see why you cant put compost around the fig and vine. Can you get rid of the rubble. I would put some wooden garden edging in, fill it with new soil and compost and plant your new stuff, borage seems to grow snywhere,

i sieved my bad soil...boring...then added some grow bags....and drenched it with water to soften it up....now all ok....

When you say you've added compost - how much?
For soul this bad you need a layer several inches thick, and I mean a good 6 inches over the winter. Then the worms will come and mix it through.
This gets expensive if buying sacks from the garden centre, but look into getting delivery of farmyard manure in tonne bags (like gravel comes in).

The key to improving soil is more organic material.

Realise this is t goigg be to help the plants you have right now. Some chicken manure pellets in each hole as you plant them might get them going for the rest of summer.
And water

Soil, not soul obvs.
For that you need to say your prayers

@BeggarsMeddle it's just over a metre deep. There was no flower bed there when we moved in. The grass went up to the wall and there were a few massive evergreen trees that we had removed.
@bumpertobumper I did get a big delivery one year of top soil when I removed the worst of the stones and rubble. Other years it has been multiple bags of compost or manure from the garden centre. It was almost pure rubble/ rock to start with. I wish we'd dug the area out with proper machinery when we moved in and added decent soil rather than me digging it over a bit at a time.
I also have a buddleia that does very well in there and some peonies which I transplanted from elsewhere. They look very healthy but have not flowered since being moved. I had heard they could be sulky but they've been there about five years so should be settled.
To give an idea of how poor the soil is, not even weeds can be bothered to grow there apart from some half hearted couch grass.

I think with a peony the planting depth affects flowering. Can't remember what the advice is now... apologies.

They don't like to be plants more than a couple of centimetres below the surface.

If you were to plant nearer the autumn the soil would be wetter and plants would be able to get established. The soil would also be easier to dig. Planting in naturally dry soil in the height of summer is a big ask

what would you do?
I sympathise. Hard ground is hard work!
Have you tried attacking it with a fork, rather than a spade.

I'd pot up the perennials and place them in situ, just for this year.

In autumn I would mulch heavily with manure and compost. 6 inches. Not top soil. I'd let the vine etc take their chances with a thick mulch but perhaps gently scoop the mulch away from their stems and not water the soil directly next to them too much so they are not sat with wet soil up their stems. Then I'd keep the whole area moist over winter and into spring next year in the hope the worms would do some of the work for me. They need the moisture so it's important to check and water the soil if it is drying out. The soil level will drop naturally anyway so the vines etc will get a break before long. If feeling especially motivated I might also seed clover when I mulch - it's great for soil structure. Then dig it in before I planted the bed up the following year (and just accept I might have to 'weed' clover out a few times).

Next spring/summer as the perennials are starting back up again in their pots, I'd test the soil and assuming it's not TOO bad, I'd plant my perennials and add a smaller layer of mulch again. Something like composted bark this time to keep moisture in and add fibre to the structure.

I'd then keep everything moist that year, feed regularly to champion the plants.

Then settle into a yearly cycle of mulch over winter to keep topping it up.

You could treat it like the second season of a no-dig garden, layering on top of the existing bed? Just ignore the soil underneath, cover it with old newspaper or cardboard (leaving a space around the existing plants), then a thick layer of compost and manure, then a thick layer of mulch, then put perennials directly into the compost without digging at all. I’m trying this for this season’s vegetables and so far it is working well. You could even put some of the broken rubble around the existing plants to protect them from the manure.

www.no-dig-vegetablegarden.com/keep-adding-layers-to-no-dig-gardens-or-start-again.html

I'd put a raised bed in. Even just a sleeper's depth will make a lot of difference and not harm the established big plants. The rubble round the fig tree idea above is a good one.

You need to give the plants a chance! And water in well - drench them once a week till established.

Thank you all for the great advice. I am going to repot the plants in bigger pots and place in situ. In the mean time I will work on the soil and create a raised bed. I was worried about the fig and vine being planted too deep if I raised the level, but the rubble idea should solve that.

I don't think the vine and fig will be happy to be buried further.

I would keep adding manure as a mulch, and stick to things that grow in the same conditions as vines and figs do, like herbs (rosemary and thyme should do fine), annuals like poppies, love in a mist or borage, irises (barely need any soil, happy to be baked on top), lamb's ears, bellota and so on.

Do you think so @CatherinedeBourgh ? Any perennials you think might do well?

I'm trying to think of things that grew straight in the ground when I lived in a place with almost no soil. I grew most of my plants in raised beds, but figs, vines and the plants I have mentioned all grew straight in the ground. TBH perennials tended to struggle.

If you really want some perennials, then maybe you can dig out a large hole and put in decent soil in there, making a sort of pot out of the ground? or even sink a pot into the ground? Use a pick to dig the hole, a spade doesn't stand a chance in soil like that.

I did manage to get a very beautiful flower bed going in those conditions, but it was with a fairly restricted palette of plants. Repeating them over and over does make for a lovely effect overall.

Actually come to think of it anemone de caen did ok too. Not a perennial, is a corm, but behaves a bit more like a perennial.

I have almost exactly the same issue. This thread is really useful. I have had the most depressing of gardening years as everything just keeps dying!

Yes, same problem here. You spend ages digging through the rubble only to watch the plants wilt and die. A few things have worked for me - raspberries and blackberries with loads of mulch around them, a glorious perennial sweet pea, daffodils and everything else in pots. Don't be disheartened!

Your soil sounds exactly the same as an area that I turned into a rockery. Nothing but stones and clay. More stones than clay in fact! Impossible to dig into but I persevered.

I dug in a load of topsoil and compost, not too deep, and planted rockery plants - evergreens and perennials - like Vinca Minor, Campanula (Bell Flower) and Primroses.
Primroses don't need good soil and their roots only grow to a shallow depth.
I also planted proper succulents that grow in dry rocky soil which have spread and are thriving.
It's all doing well actually, and it's in a shade spot which limits the choices.

I used a few large boulders placed decoratively for leaves to drape over.

Maybe have a look at rockery ideas you might like that idea?

I have spent years trying to dig stuff into dry soil for it all to vanish.

Now we do a thick layer of bagged composted manure/home compost with a layer of bark over the top to keep the moisture in and give the worms something to work with. This is mainly the areas where I am trying to establish shrubs.

I have had more luck with tufted lavenders and alpines in the dry sunny parts. Hollyhocks which have tap roots and grow like weeds - I have seen lovely single flowers in pastel shades around recently. I also have a ground cover rose that is rampant. I have tried growing it up an obelisk. Some day lilies and geraniums are also quite tolerant.

@Circumferences i love this idea! I am doing it! Off to look for photos!