Apple tree positioning

[TiddleTaddleTat]

Hi
We have two apple trees - malus domestica discovery and golden delicious. Both apparently not on a dwarfing rootstock (so semi-vigorous?) eventual height 3-5m. Bought as bare root last winter (20/21), leading stem pruned hard after planting in large containers.
We have a lawn approximately 2m wide by about 10m long, it has a privet hedge on one side and path on the other that provides access to the back of the garden where we spend most of our garden time.
The lawn is mostly in the sun although side nearest path is shaded due to garage.

My question is whether this would be a suitable spot for both Apple trees? We could certainly fit one in, pretty much in the centre of the lawn, but I gather two is better as they cross pollinate ?

We would be hoping to prune twice yearly (inc summer) so that we have bushier, low trees. The two varieties also fruit at different times so that would be quite good eating - wise!

We already have a crabapple (professor sprenger, dwarf rootstock) and prunus serrula, but both are ornamental.

Advice gratefully received

Should have said that the trees we already have are at the back of the garden so not on the lawn.

Pollination is less of an issue as you have the crab apple as well. They will need sun to be able to ripen fruit and you need to consider the spread as much as the overall height....

As for pruning twice a year- well the rootstock will influence the height regardless so you're not going to be able to keep them that small and over pruning tends to just stimulate more growth.

Oh, the comment about the trees you already have refers to the crababpple?

Yes sorry for confusion, we have the crabapple and cherry at the back of the garden.
Appreciate your thoughts about cross pollination, I think fitting both in may be a bit of a stretch with our light / space conditions.
May just go with one.
Internet suggests that regular summer pruning will keep apple trees small - is that not the case?
The spread is listed on the packet as 1.5-2m so theoretically not beyond the boundary of the lawn.

It will limit their growth to some degree, yes, but fighting against natural tendencies from the rootstock is a bit futile.

But I have enough space though anyway for one. Do you mean I just don’t have enough space for both? Sorry just don’t want to make the mistake of previous owners and end up removing trees that are too big.

I think based on the fact they're on semi vigorous rootstocks, you aren't going to have space for them. You can't have just one if you want fruit unless it's a self fertile one on dwarfing rootstock.

Right ok, I hear you on the size issue.
Pollination is probably not a concern, I’ve done some reading and should be fine since we’re suburban and have a crabapple tree in our garden www.orangepippintrees.com/articles/planting-growing/pollination-of-fruit-trees

Although if it's round the other side of the house, is it close enough?

1.5 -2m wide seems a bit unrealistic- it’s not going to be 5m tall and 2m wide, they don’t grow that shape (pear trees often taller and thinner.) Could it jut over hedge and boundary horizontally? If not I think you’re better off buying more on dwarf rootstock.

This is the label , it’s from Tesco
I mean the apple trees I’ve seen in friends’ gardens are not super enormous but then they I don’t know the rootstock.
The discovery variety is apparently more compact , although this link would suggest it could get 8x8m
www.rhs.org.uk/plants/70631/malus-domestica-discovery-(d)/details

The crabapple is also in the back garden, it’s about 10m from the lawn

Even the trees we have which must be on dwarfing rootstock are at least 1.5 m (all here before we bought the house).

Less dwarfing are generally wider. That really isn't a realistic spread. I can't think of any of our trees that could be 5 foot apart at trunks without branches entangling (there are even at wider distances)

Eek
I’m not sure what to do… really would love to have our own apples though

Well I'd be looking at a reputable nursery or garden centre for a self fertile variety on a dwarfing rootstock or one of the columnar types

So what’s she going to do with the two she already has? She’s made it clear she doesn’t like removing trees, so throwing away trees is probably not an option either.

The crabapple and cherry are both dwarf varieties and from great nurseries, we planted them this and last year from bare root.
Yes @MereDintofPandiculation that’s it - I don’t want to waste these. I am wondering whether they can remain in the pots , they are massive. My partner bought these trees from Tesco 2 for £10 on a whim, but no idea what the rootstock is really. It could be a dwarf variety for all I know !

I am wondering whether they can remain in the pots , they are massive. If their growth is being severely restricted by the pots, then it may have a knock on effect on fruit size.

Are they still young enough for you to train them as espaliers? That'd cut down the width.

Personally I find summer pruning tricky (I have done it) because you've got the developing fruit on the trees.

I think whatever you do, you'll do something which is non standard. I trained mine over a pergola, so I have a tunnel of blossom in the spring and a tunnel for fruit in the autumn. A purist would shudder. Current form of trees reflects recurrent depression, and they're not pruned for maximum yield - a fruit grower would suggest I rip them all out and start again - but I still get around 200lb each year, which is a many as we can eat.

Thanks, those are good ideas. Thinking about the best light in the garden it would probably need to be in the lawn somehow, the privet gets the best of the sun unfortunately (I hate the stuff) and there isn’t enough space at the back really.
They were planted in pots bare root in Feb 2021, so still time to do something along the lines you suggest I reckon.

Perhaps I could grow them as espaliers on screens / trellis to break up the lawn.

Is there a typo in your first post? If the lawn is only 2m wide, putting any tree in it will create quite an obstacle. Training as an espalier or cordon seems a very good idea.

Forgot to mention, the point about espalier, cordons etc are that they are grown on less dwarfing rootstocks than bush trees, ie you need the vigour of the rootstock to compensate for the constriction of growth.

I would be inclined to keep your existing trees in the pots and invest in a new tree for your back garden on the right sort of rootstock, possibly even a multi-variety family tree if you like the mix. That way you'll hopefully get fruit from your existing trees while your new tree establishes itself, and when/if the existing ones start to struggle due to lack of room, your new tree should hopefully be ready to start giving you years of lovely fruit. Do have a good think about what variety or varieties you choose so you're sure it's one you really like; there are some amazing heritage varieties that are well worth trying out (see if you can get to an apple festival!).

This picture might help?!