Problems with newly laid porcelain patio

[HazyDaisy123456]

We asked a tradesman who was recommended to us to lay us a patio and build us some planters. He agreed and gave us a quote.

He recommended a local supplier for tiles and they seemed knowledgeable and both the supplier and the tradesman recommended the tiles we chose. Anyway the date for the work to commence changed and they ended up coming when we were on holiday. He sent us photos of the finished patio and asked us not to walk on it for 48 hours and we did as he said. On Monday when we got to go on the patio we noticed a number of issues, 3 cracked tiles and three wobbly tiles. We phoned and he came out was really nice about it apologised and promised to make it good, he also got the tile supplier round to check the tiles. Apparently the supplier is paying to replace the chipped damaged tiles and the builder is paying to replace the wobbly tiles. The builder also tiled over a manhole cover (so he has had to replace an additional 4 tiles. He worked most of Tuesday trying to rectify this then him and another man spent most of today again trying to finish off. He is coming to clean the patio and to take away some rubble away tomorrow and asked us to purchase some white silica sand to finish it off. After he left we noticed one of the tiles that he replaced and relaid has cracked again at the edges. It seems like it has been a pig of a job for him from start to finish and it certainly wasn’t cheap for us. We haven’t paid as yet but we are regretting having the work done and worry if the patio has problems within days of it being laid it won’t be worth the money and we have to put up with cracked and wobbly tiles and an unsafe patio.

What should we do and should we expect any kind of guarantee for the work? Any advice required.

Thanks all we didn’t go for the cheapest quote we went on a recommendation. He sounded like he knew what he was talking about and two local builders merchants also sung his praises.

@didireallysaythat

Was their limestone and a whacker plate involved in setting the sub base? Probably a builders bag of materials or two?

This is our go to advice for these things

www.pavingexpert.com/

We had a builder lay the first porcelain patio for us and then we laid another during lockdown last year. 20mm tiles, on concrete mix with bonding adhesive. And yes you get man hole covers which you tile into to, you don't tile over them...

Second www.pavingexpert.com The guy who wrote the website only does consultancy work now, but he might be able to have a look if he’s in the area, or help you find someone who can.

I agree with pp- they look too thin for a floor. Have you walked on them yet? Dropped anything- they don’t look fit for purpose. Trading standards?

Have briefly walked on them but very briefly. He was back today but has now relaid so many of them again that we have to wait until tomorrow to walk on them. They are coming back on Saturday to fix the damaged tile in the first photo and to put sillica sand down.

Photo today the ones with the stones on are all
ones he has relaid plus another 4 around the corner.

Laying porcelain tiles is different to laying stone pavers. This link shows you how to lay tiles on a variety of surfaces.

Is the photo showing the tiles by the door a reflection? They aren't laid like that are they?

I assume that is a step from the door, but do the joints of the tiles line up with the patio or is it the camera angle skewing it.

Yes a step.

What is the silica sand for? Porcelain should be grouted as you would with internal tiles. Ours were laid on compacted hardcore and a full mortar base with exoxy grout used. The underside of the tiles should be primed to make them stick to the mortar. This photo should give an idea of the base. They are 20mm thick.

For an independent view this company do a lot of expert witness stuff: www.landscapeacademy.co.uk/landscape-consultancy/expert-witness/

We were on holiday when it was laid and he sounded like he knew what he was talking about, lots of positive reviews, he wasn’t cheap, builders merchants recommended him and a friend I don’t see often had recommended him. I have since heard after she recommended him and before he did our job he tiled over her manhole and when she had problems with her drains soon after he ripped it up and charged her for it again and she is left with wonky flags.

He hasn’t turned up today so far to replace the tile he promised to in an earlier photo and put down the sillica sand (which I expect was to try and minimise and hide the mistakes). I found another dodgy tile this morning see photos.

We still haven’t paid him but paid the supplier yesterday. I really wished we had not bothered having the work done now and it wasn’t cheap.

If DH had done a job like that I would be miffed we didn’t hire a professional but would have to acknowledge he was cheap/free and he tried his best.

We have moved the garden furniture out of the back room today and put it at the top of the garden on the grass not on the patio as it should be, incase they turn up this afternoon which is probably unlikely.

He has not even attempted to line up the drain cover tiles or fill around the cut outs for post etc. Has water settled in the joint of a couple of tiles?

He has turned up to replace the chipped and wonky flag and to get at it has lifted two flags.

See photo for the base.

@LIZS he originally tiled over the drain cover.

This was his attempt at making it good.

We haven’t had any rain apart from last night when it was biblical rain not had the chance to notice. They finished the job a week today.

But he hasn't made it good. Yes it is now a draincover but for it to line up he needs to cut tiles down to match up with those alongside. Also the ones around the post are messy with extra seams rather than cut out the post. Have you measured the tile thickness yet?

Need to do that but man still here DH thinks its 20MM and nothing we can do should just live with it.

Yes 20MM

I don't know about outside but our inside tiles were laid on something (extremely expensive) that gave them enough movement so they don't crack. I've dropped two Le Creusets on them and the tiles were fine, though over five years we have two tiny chips where someone has dropped something sharp (you wouldn't notice unless you were on hands and knees).

Where did you buy the tiles.from?

Tiles were purchased from a local builders merchant

They look like interior tiles to me, they don't seem fit for purpose.

He shouldn't leave the cut out like that. Don't let him get away with such poor workmanship.

Firstly, dont pay for this, however much you are pressurised.

This is a bad job. Porcelain tiles should be laid on a full bed of muck, not just round the edges like that. I know how difficult that is but these things are much easier to resolve before you pay.

Is he priming the tiles before he lays them? Brushing a liquid on the bottom of them. If not, they wont stick to the muck and they will come loose.

You can ask another tiler out to look at the job / quote to remedy it. In my experience that's much easier than getting an expert.

Why is he not using spacers? Like PP, my experience with porcelain slabs is that they should be grouted. Not 100% sure if they can be butted up against each other. Clearly that approach has been a nightmare for the bloke. Who is paying for all the replacement tiles?

Read the sections on "Ring bedding" and "spot bedding" here. www.pavingexpert.com/layflag1

I would be even more worried if he hadn't used primer tbh. I also can't see a bed of sand below the muck. Might be a nice bloke but his paving is sub-standard.

I really feel for you. It's awful to be in this situation. You have the law on your side. You may want to seek legal advice e.g. via your home insurance. I believe you will need to give him the opportunity to remedy the faults.

I think he knows he has done a bad job and has been really trying to rectify it most of last week (as he’ll want paid) but I don’t think he can. I really I think the lot needs ripped up and relaid again properly by someone qualified. Including materials and labour it came to just over 4K to lay patio and build to sleeper beds. We have paid for the materials and can’t afford to pay again for the materials and to pay someone else to re do it.

He had supposedly said to my neighbour that he had never worked with the tiles we choose before and he wouldn’t work with them again as the job had been a nightmare.

I have a text whereby I asked him what he thought of the tiles and he said they were ‘lovely slabs’ he also said verbally that he had used them before. We have heavy rain forecast most of the weekend and most of next week so it will be interesting to see what happens with them.

It does sound like he has never laid porcelain before. It is a totally different technique to natural stone or concrete and needs a lot more preparation. When we were getting quotes fir our porcelain tiles to be laid most builders would not touch them and the quotes we got were almost double in labour compared to regular tiles.

I am not sure how big your patio is but £4k does sound quite cheap. We had 100m2 laid and paid £2.5k for the tiles alone. Fitting and other materials was £13k including drainage, steps and raised beds. There was about 6 weeks labour involved for 2 men and quite a lot of digging out with a mini digger and muck away.