Anybody knowledgeable about daffodils?

[senua]

We all know the prevailing advice about not cutting back daffodil leaves after flowering so the bulb can store energy for next year’s flowers. But does anybody know the chapter and verse on this? – quite often scientific advice gets distorted or misappropriated and I wondered if this has happened to daffodils.
For example, we are told to consume 2 litres a day if we want to be properly hydrated. This has morphed into ‘we should drink 2L a day’ but this is a distortion. Some of our liquid intake comes from food (esp things like soup, melon, etc) so we don’t need to take in a whole extra 2L by means of drinking.

So, back to daffodils: how much difference does it make leaving the leaves - is the effect marginal but has been talked up by some zealous journalist? Is most of the effect achieved within the first (say) two weeks and we might as well cut after that?
As you may guess, I have some daffodil leaves I want to cut down. What is the actual chapter and verse on the scientific research (as opposed to "a TV presenter/ my NDN's cousin said")

I don't know, but my grandma used to tie the leaves up neatly in bundles (still attached) with garden twine because she didn't want them straggling all over the garden while they did whatever they are supposed to do. So if it turns out the leaves do need to stay, that's what I'd do!

You could experiment. Cut half your plants leaves off, leave the other half and see if the cut ones actually manage to flower next year.

I was always told you shouldn’t tie them either, even though it looks neater. Mine look a state at the minute so I’d be interested to find out how bad it actually is to get rid.

Daffodils use the nutrient from the leaves to store for the next year so never cut them off till they have died. If you tie them up make sure you do it loosely otherwise the leaves will get damaged and not store the nutrients,

To use your analogy, I can't tell you how much water you need to drink without knowing what else you have consumed. It depends on the weather, how much sun there was, whether the plant is in full sun or partial shade etc.

Don't cut the leaves off. You could plait/tie them up but they won't do as well as if you had left the leaves free.

Can you lop off the old flower heads though?

I chop mine back every year and they come back with a vengeance

@RickOShay

Can you lop off the old flower heads though?

I always take the old flower heads off quite low down on the stem because I find the stems take longer to die back than the leaves and so they stick up over the died back leaves . I toss the flower heads down on the ground so they nourish the soil a bit as they disintegrate.

I think daffodils can come up blind the following year if you chop them back - I've never tried though

I chop mine back every year and they come back with a vengeance
This is the sort of thing I'm wondering about.
Is the "don't cut the leaves" business either (1) sensible advice or (2) a council of perfection?

I'm tempted to do what youdon'tknow suggests and do a controlled experiment.

I take the bush cutter to mine. We have a lot. Both planted and wild, I’ve lived here seven years and done it every single year. They literally come back stronger than ever before. I’d bloody spend days tying them up, and they look straggly and shit once they are done.

Don’t do it immediately though, I do it about two to three weeks after they are spent.

I’ve never cut mine back, but my neighbours do on their verge (they strim every last bit!) and they’ve come back well for the last three years.

We have mass planted ones around here on verges - they seem to leave them while they're flowering then they just drive the mower over them! No sign it's hindering them

I always leave them until they start to yellow, which is a sign of the cells breaking down and the nutrients going back down into the bulb. They will photosynthesise until then, and are using this time to create the embryo flower bud for next year. Although you do hear of some being treated harshly and still coming back for more, I prefer to give mine a bit of boost and make sure they're fed and watered during this period. Then I get the usual result of their being eaten away by slugs and snails - I just can't win really...

There are some that will happily flower year after year without any sort of attention. The more closely related they are to native species, generally the more robust; highly bred narcissus tend to be more delicate and easily offended than very old varieties.

You could try a controlled experiment, at the very least it'll show you how your particular specimens respond to the leaves being left or being severed. The RHS once experimented with some rose bushes. instead of pruning them with sharp secateurs to an outward facing bud yada yada yada, they simply strimmed the lot with a hedge trimmer. Next spring, new growth appeared and the the bushes were flowering just as well as they'd been when they'd been pruned to more exacting standards. So maybe the rough and ready approach can work just as well?

Well, my ever-so-helpful DH can assist here because 2 years ago he mowed over the lot of my daffodils when they had just barely finished flowering (ie, about this time of year). The following year (last year) we had probably half the number of flowers that we normally get and lots and lots of blind clumps. He's under strict instructions not to touch them until I say it's ok now, they are much better this year.

Would the same answers apply to tulips?? I have been advised to take the top inch off mine when the petals fall so have done that! The petals are almost all off after today🙄😢😢

The rationale behind the bulb mode of growth is to grow, store energy in a bulb, then die down to sit out the unfavourable season (winter here, hot dry summer further south) then be ready to flower and be first to attract insects when good weather returns. Basically, as long as they are green, the leaves will be photosynthesising and producing energy to store in the bulb.

So truncating the growing period will reduce the energy stored in the bulb. Ill effects won’t be confined to not flowering, it will also affect the growth of the bulb and whether it will be able to clump up.

@jrek

Would the same answers apply to tulips?? I have been advised to take the top inch off mine when the petals fall so have done that! The petals are almost all off after today🙄😢😢

The part within the tulip flower is the ovary, where seeds will develop if the flower has been fertilised. The seeds will probably be infertile but the tulip doesn't know that and will expend energy on developing them. So you cut that off and leave the rest to carry on photosynthesising.

Tulips often deteriorate over time - not species tulips generally - and they tend to be treated more like annuals and replaced annually. In my admittedly limited experience, plainer flowered varieties come back reliably year after year, and super expensive fancy ones look frankly crap the next year. That might just be me though

In all cases though, I would definitely feed bulbs and water them if it's dry while they're at this stage.

Thank you!!

I'm sure it depends on a number of factors. I do leave the leaves on mine but also fertilise them. They're in beds where there's probably quite a lot of competition. It may be that if they're growing somewhere fertile but without much competition they could manage with less leaf time.

I've come to the conclusion it would be better to have daffs further back so that the old leaves get hidden behind emerging perennials, and also use more of the smaller varieties. Eg Tête-à-tête (autocorrect accented that) is a good 'doer' but without too much floppy leaf.

You need to remove the daffodil stem once the flower has aged. Leave the leaves to continue to photosynthesise and make food / energy for the bulb. If you remove the food making organs of the plant, how can energy be made or stored? Longevity is supported by the presence of the leaves.

more of the smaller varieties. Eg Tête-à-tête (autocorrect accented that ) is a good 'doer' but without too much floppy leaf. There's a lot to be said for the native daffodil Narcissus pseudonarcissus ssp pseudonarcissus. Sturdy, not tall enough to become floppy, and a good naturaliser.

There's a lot to be said for the native daffodil Narcissus pseudonarcissus ssp pseudonarcissus. Sturdy, not tall enough to become floppy, and a good naturaliser.

Yes, we've got some wonderful patches in woodlands near us. I'm not sure I've ever noticed the bulbs for sale - do you know if there are any issues with sourcing the wild type?

I'm not sure I've ever noticed the bulbs for sale - do you know if there are any issues with sourcing the wild type? I don't know of any problem, probably because there are so many other daffodils available, there hasn't been the temptation to dig up wild plants. Daffodils don't have he special level of protection that bluebells do, and so I presume they haven't had the same threats from unscrupulous sellers.

You probably need to look at specialist bulb suppliers or wild flower suppliers, but in autumn.

I've got ssp pseudonarcissus; I've also got what purports to be ssp obvallaris, ie Tenby daffodil, but they're a wee bit taller, so I am a bit suspicious about those.

If you chop off the leaves you prevent the bulb storing energy for next year. You will probably get a flower but much smaller. If you keep doing it every year then eventually it won’t have the energy to flower any more. After flowering you normally feed with whatever plant food you have handy then leave to gather energy for 6-8 weeks.

Tulips are a different kettle of fish. This isn’t their native climate and they don’t do well, they usually flower once before the weather kills them. If they do manage to flower a second time the flower is tiny. There are only a very few species tulips that will reliably come back every year in the UK.

I leave the leaves until they start to go limp and brown which means they are dead. Then I simply mow over them. Mine are along the borders of my lawn.