Aesthetic advice please - roses...

[AthelstaneTheUnready]

I'm hoping someone with a stronger sense of style than mine can help out!

I have an 1840's/50's, gothic'y window, stone house, painted cream. I desperately want some roses to grow up the front - the entire front is covered with very old-fashioned pegs so something has clearly been grown there before.

Having no taste myself, I'm worried I'm thinking of overdoing it. There are 4 equally distanced places across the front I could put a rose, and I'm thinking of using all of them:

Mme A Carriere - tall, left side of house (cream)
Malvern Hills - not so tall, left side of door (yellow)
Bathsheba - not so tall, right side of door (apricot)
R. Rector - tall, right side of house (white)

Are 4 different types just too busy for one front? Should I only have 1, or maybe 2? Will these choices just disappear against a cream background?

Ideally I'd love a strongly scented, red or scarlet, climber or rambler, but those don't seem to exist.

Is it a hands-in-the-air-horror idea to grow against a painted wall, for maintenance reasons?

This is the first time I've owned my own house with a garden, and the absolute freedom to do whatever is paralysing me!

I think there are two good approaches to colour in gardens.

One is to carefully plan swathes of colours, either complementary or 'secondary' in groups. Look at a colour wheel. I'm not sure about white, yellow and apricot if you want that very controlled look. It's more contemporary.

The other approach is to think fuck it and mix everything up, it's a more traditional cottage garden look, and your Roses will be beautiful whatever they are next to. Personally, I like a bit of natural chaos in a garden, I think it's much more interesting.

It depends what effect you are going for.

You could also use a mix of plants? If you are after scent how about a jasmine or honeysuckle instead of one of the roses?

I probably wouldn’t put orange next to apricot. Maybe switch the apricot and white.

Only 1 colour would look a bit unnatural. There’s a hotel near us which is pale green with about 12 hanging baskets of red geraniums - they might as well be plastic.

Nearest to a strongly scented red that comes to mind is a sweet briar variety - the flowers don’t have a strong scent, but the leaves smell strongly of apples, especially after rain.

You’ll need to be able to unfasten the roses and lie them down for painting.

Try to stop thinking so long term about the garden. Everything is an experiment, nothing is there forever. Yes, plan for the longer term, but with the expectation that you can completely change your mind. In 5 years time, when you are longing to buy a particular plant but have nowhere to put it, you will look back with longing at these days, so enjoy them!

Peter Beales have a good selection of red climbing roses, some of which are well scented.

I'm quite jealous! Although we have a wonderful sized garden, which has been largely a blank canvas, and so we've put a rose garden in, I love climbing roses up houses but the placement if windows and doors means there's just not really a good place for one. Happy planting!

@Hollyhocksarenotmessy

I think there are two good approaches to colour in gardens.

One is to carefully plan swathes of colours, either complementary or 'secondary' in groups. Look at a colour wheel. I'm not sure about white, yellow and apricot if you want that very controlled look. It's more contemporary.

The other approach is to think fuck it and mix everything up, it's a more traditional cottage garden look, and your Roses will be beautiful whatever they are next to. Personally, I like a bit of natural chaos in a garden, I think it's much more interesting.

It depends what effect you are going for.

You could also use a mix of plants? If you are after scent how about a jasmine or honeysuckle instead of one of the roses?

Definitely a 'fuck it' preference - I've just put a purple, and a white, lilac under a yellow laburnum.

So actually, I could have a real smack in the eye, and have white / yellow / pink / apricot - or do those colours not help each other? I had a Dorothy Perkins in a rented house, which I was rather fond of. Hardly any scent though.

I have looked at colour wheels but am none the wiser. Sadly not at all a visual processing sort of person.

@MereDintofPandiculation

I probably wouldn’t put orange next to apricot. Maybe switch the apricot and white.

Only 1 colour would look a bit unnatural. There’s a hotel near us which is pale green with about 12 hanging baskets of red geraniums - they might as well be plastic.

Nearest to a strongly scented red that comes to mind is a sweet briar variety - the flowers don’t have a strong scent, but the leaves smell strongly of apples, especially after rain.

You’ll need to be able to unfasten the roses and lie them down for painting.

Try to stop thinking so long term about the garden. Everything is an experiment, nothing is there forever. Yes, plan for the longer term, but with the expectation that you can completely change your mind. In 5 years time, when you are longing to buy a particular plant but have nowhere to put it, you will look back with longing at these days, so enjoy them!

Thank you! Things like this I need to hear.

Unfasten, hey. Can that be done using the wire - as in, untwist each end of each horizontal wire, and lay the rose down (will the base snap?)

That is a very insightful comment about the long term. Yes, I am guilty of thinking there's just one chance to get it right. Partly because I'm such a sap about rooting up established plants murdering them

@WheresMyClint

Peter Beales have a good selection of red climbing roses, some of which are well scented.

I'm quite jealous! Although we have a wonderful sized garden, which has been largely a blank canvas, and so we've put a rose garden in, I love climbing roses up houses but the placement if windows and doors means there's just not really a good place for one. Happy planting!

Thank you for the tip - I'll go and check that out now.

The garden I inherited is a bit tricky - lots of shade, so only a few places to put a veg bed, or some herbaceous beds. Previous owners had gone down the shrubs and daffodils route only. Soil is shocking - more rubble than anything. Lots of random small retaining walls everywhere. No 'obvious' space for anything.

So far I've just removed about 1/4 acre of rhododendrons (there are plenty left!). I've not really had to garden with a pickaxe and chainsaw before.

If you really prefer red/scarlet why not look at Ena Harkness, Etoile de Hollande or Guinée? They are all red/scarlet, climbing and highly scented. Ena Harkness in particular has a really lovely fragrance. Beales have them all online.

Maintenance wise growing against a painted wall is not a disaster, but like PP say you’ll need to be able to remove the rose to paint behind it- so if it needs painting in the next couple of years I would suggest you set up your supports, paint and then plant. Realistically it’s going to take a few years to cover the wall anyway so it’s probably not too much of a pressing issue.

As for how many to choose you can either carefully decide on your colour scheme and plan your garden around that, or you can do what I do and just buy whatever I like the look of and plant it, erm, somewhere! I worry less about colour schemes and more about whether I like something personally.

OP just a word of advice that was given to me by a garden designer when I was laying out a rose bed. I’d done a bit like you have and spent hours selecting a range of roses in complementary colours. Unfortunately what happens is you never get the effect you’re after as they will all flower at slightly different times, and some will be more vigorous than others.

I’d personally pick just one variety - and go for the one that is most disease resistant- and repeat it. You get a much more dramatic effect. For what it’s worth depending on the colour of your cream painted walls i think white or cream roses would be slightly lost. I’m not a fan of red roses but they are often flower very freely and are as tough as old boots. Have fun!

@NoParticularPattern

If you really prefer red/scarlet why not look at Ena Harkness, Etoile de Hollande or Guinée? They are all red/scarlet, climbing and highly scented. Ena Harkness in particular has a really lovely fragrance. Beales have them all online.

Maintenance wise growing against a painted wall is not a disaster, but like PP say you’ll need to be able to remove the rose to paint behind it- so if it needs painting in the next couple of years I would suggest you set up your supports, paint and then plant. Realistically it’s going to take a few years to cover the wall anyway so it’s probably not too much of a pressing issue.

As for how many to choose you can either carefully decide on your colour scheme and plan your garden around that, or you can do what I do and just buy whatever I like the look of and plant it, erm, somewhere! I worry less about colour schemes and more about whether I like something personally.

I am so glad I asked!

I have just looked at Peter Beales, as wheresmyclint also suggested, and the Guinee has stolen my heart.

I was stuck on the David Austin pages, assuming they'd offer most alternatives. Thank you all

@Daisydoesnt

OP just a word of advice that was given to me by a garden designer when I was laying out a rose bed. I’d done a bit like you have and spent hours selecting a range of roses in complementary colours. Unfortunately what happens is you never get the effect you’re after as they will all flower at slightly different times, and some will be more vigorous than others.

I’d personally pick just one variety - and go for the one that is most disease resistant- and repeat it. You get a much more dramatic effect. For what it’s worth depending on the colour of your cream painted walls i think white or cream roses would be slightly lost. I’m not a fan of red roses but they are often flower very freely and are as tough as old boots. Have fun!

Yeah, I suspect I'd lose the cream ones too .

I'm thinking about adding a summer jasmine alongside one of them - but do roses resent being leaned on by another plant?

(Sorry! thinking long term about the weight in the 20 years' time! will stop it...)

What direction are your walls facing? Bathsheba wouldn’t do well on a north facing wall and I think is potentially the most difficult to grow of the ones you’ve mentioned. Mme Alfred Carriere is great for a north facing wall or shadier spot, but does get really big, I think rambling rector does too. The pilgrim is really nice for a shorter climber and is a bit more shade tolerant. If roses have been grown and died in the spot where you plan to plant then you might need to replace the soil/get a replant box - for some reason they don’t like growing on the same site as previous failed roses.
Personally I wouldn’t get 4 roses though, I’d get two and then something like honeysuckle, clematis, jasmine for different scent and interest.

Also flowering times, do you want them all to flower at once, or more staggered so you have flowers over a longer period but not the mass of colour all at once? Fwiw I would put in what I like and not worry about it matching.

Seeing the way jasmine grows it might overwhelm the rose, you might be better considering the classic combination of growing clematis through them instead? Or instead of planting four roses, try growing the jasmine in place of one of them instead? Perhaps on the far side so it doesn't impact the block planting of the climbing roses (if you go for all one rose variety that is).

@Didiusfalco

What direction are your walls facing? Bathsheba wouldn’t do well on a north facing wall and I think is potentially the most difficult to grow of the ones you’ve mentioned. Mme Alfred Carriere is great for a north facing wall or shadier spot, but does get really big, I think rambling rector does too. The pilgrim is really nice for a shorter climber and is a bit more shade tolerant. If roses have been grown and died in the spot where you plan to plant then you might need to replace the soil/get a replant box - for some reason they don’t like growing on the same site as previous failed roses. Personally I wouldn’t get 4 roses though, I’d get two and then something like honeysuckle, clematis, jasmine for different scent and interest.

East (east south east really) facing, so should manage.

I looked after a r.rector in a previous rented house, so... yeah. Not scared of thugs .

Think it was previously wisteria that was trained around the front - there's an elderly guy on the south facing side.

@Firststariseetonight

Also flowering times, do you want them all to flower at once, or more staggered so you have flowers over a longer period but not the mass of colour all at once? Fwiw I would put in what I like and not worry about it matching.

Good point, but not fussed. Staggered would be nice, but I'm not going to choose based on that.

@WheresMyClint

Seeing the way jasmine grows it might overwhelm the rose, you might be better considering the classic combination of growing clematis through them instead? Or instead of planting four roses, try growing the jasmine in place of one of them instead? Perhaps on the far side so it doesn't impact the block planting of the climbing roses (if you go for all one rose variety that is).

I don't like clematis .

I'm now leaning towards a Guinee on the left, a City of York on the right, and a couple of pyramids of sweet peas either side of the door.

And THIS is why I don't trust myself! Can't stick to a decision.

We have City of York in our garden, it’s a beautiful Rose. I agree with PPs about repeat flowering and scent. I’ve just planted New Dawn on my house wall, not too far from Golden Showers. A bit of a clash.
At the front, years ago, someone has planted Welcome ( an old single flowered orange climber) and Gertrude Jekyll which is hot pink, over the porch. Over the years they’ve been neglected and severely cut back. They’ll be another clash!

Gertrude Jeckyll- pink and smell beautiful .

Guinee is beautiful, but can be really quite challenging to grow.

@Beebumble2

We have City of York in our garden, it’s a beautiful Rose. I agree with PPs about repeat flowering and scent. I’ve just planted New Dawn on my house wall, not too far from Golden Showers. A bit of a clash. At the front, years ago, someone has planted Welcome ( an old single flowered orange climber) and Gertrude Jekyll which is hot pink, over the porch. Over the years they’ve been neglected and severely cut back. They’ll be another clash!

I quite like orange and pink. Would love to see that.

@Didiusfalco

Guinee is beautiful, but can be really quite challenging to grow.

Yes, it didn't go unnoticed that the gumph said "extra care and feeding is required".

JLS, despite my quite liking the previous Dorothy Perkins, I can't really get into pink roses. Red - perfect, white - nearly as good, any sort of orange or apricot - can be lovely, but pink... must be some long buried prejudice in there.

Beware of Rambling Rector! We had one at our last house, it looked and smelled wonderful for 2 weeks in early June, then the flowers died, brown petals scattered everywhere, it then sent out huge, long and very thorny canes. It had to be pruned off a ladder, it also completely swamped the yellow rose I'd planted next to it in order to have flowers for the rest of the summer. I would advise going for repeat flowering roses, which David Austin rose are good at. There's a good website called Right Roses which scores roses according to reliability, scent, growing habit, disease resistance etc. It's worth looking at before you choose.

I don't like clematis

What, none of them? Surely there’s a clematis for all occasions. Something like this www.thompson-morgan.com/p/clematis-urophylla-winter-beauty/P88973TM?source=google-prodex&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0caCBhCIARIsAGAfuMz2cmL-lYpLvGxCuAA0_C877FmieMn4LIFoEtMDO6fRPsCUGcUKcNAaAra5EALw_wcB would complement roses and give winter or spring interest.

@Quinque

Beware of Rambling Rector! We had one at our last house, it looked and smelled wonderful for 2 weeks in early June, then the flowers died, brown petals scattered everywhere, it then sent out huge, long and very thorny canes. It had to be pruned off a ladder, it also completely swamped the yellow rose I'd planted next to it in order to have flowers for the rest of the summer. I would advise going for repeat flowering roses, which David Austin rose are good at. There's a good website called Right Roses which scores roses according to reliability, scent, growing habit, disease resistance etc. It's worth looking at before you choose.

So true. I looked after one in a previous rented house that was taking over a tree - had to cut back enormous piles every year. But it was lovely.

Unfortunately it's too late for additional words of warning! I ordered the Guinee and the City of York yesterday (I already have a r.rector in a pot, taken as a cutting).

A VERY lovely neighbour came round with a ?stonesaw? yesterday and removed some half-slabs, and I am impressed with the quality of soil underneath.

Thought it might be mainly rubble, but aside from some head-sized cobbles, it looks great.

Got my mycor... funghi, some food, some topsoil - just waiting for the roses now

@WiseUpJanetWeiss

I don't like clematis

What, none of them? Surely there’s a clematis for all occasions. Something like this www.thompson-morgan.com/p/clematis-urophylla-winter-beauty/P88973TM?source=google-prodex&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0caCBhCIARIsAGAfuMz2cmL-lYpLvGxCuAA0_C877FmieMn4LIFoEtMDO6fRPsCUGcUKcNAaAra5EALw_wcB would complement roses and give winter or spring interest.

Well, there's a rather nice white one in my parents' garden, which smells just astonishing in (might be winter or spring, can't remember).

My father gave me some cuttings from that, but unfortunately greenfly attacked them (outside in the summer), and then the frost finished them off (inside the conservatory).

I don't know, they just don't 'call' to me, in that "I must have that plant in my garden or perish" way that I feel about, say, the burgundy pulsatillas.