Raspberries, and everything else?

[AdventureIsWaiting]

I'd really appreciate a bit of advice please, as I thought I'd broken it down into simple steps but I'm now in a bit of a muddle.

We have three new veg beds. I'm a lowish-effort gardener, good at watering. Previously been very successful with: tomatoes; cucumbers; beans; rhubarb; courgettes; potatoes; beetroot.

I've got a very sunny (exposed) bed (#1) with neutral, clay soil (and a top layer of last year's high quality grow bag soil). I am going to de-pot my herbs into it, then fill the rest with raspberry canes and strawberry plants. I've measured and it's large enough. I have found a pack of raspberry canes online from Thompson and Morgan, and I think what I need to do is plant them to the soil line on the cane, water them with plenty of Tomorite for a few weeks, and then cut them back per the RHS website instructions next year, not expecting any raspberries until next year. Does this sound okay? A lot of websites say you need to buy extra fertiliser, but I've always thought Tomorite works for most things.

Of the other two beds, one (#2) was really good with courgettes last year, so I'm going to try a mixture of courgettes and beans. The one at the bottom (#3) is in partial shade for half the day, then full sun in the afternoon, followed by shade in the evening (it's partly overshadowed by our southern garden fence, but we have an open south-facing garden). I've already had to put one of my dwarf fruit trees in there as an emergency (it hated the pot), so I was thinking to try cucumbers (with some kind of PVC cover to act as a greenhouse) and one or two pumpkin or squash plants.

Does this sound okay do you think? I'm also wondering about whether I should try the beans and the pumpkin/squash together on the 'three sisters' basis in the side bed (#2), and move the courgettes down to the bottom with the cucumbers (#3)?

Very grateful for any advice - the more I read websites, the more it sounds like you need a chemistry or biology degree to be successful at this stuff!

All I can say about raspberries is that I had no clue how many suckers they send out and how much they spread! I ended up digging them up at the end of the first season and spent the next 2 years constantly pulling up new plants that were still sprouting up all over the place!

Don’t be fooled by a couple of canes, they spread quickly and with minimal effort!

I wouldn’t plant strawberries underneath as the raspberries will block the light.

That's really helpful, thank you! I had measured out space for six, but maybe I'll stick to four with the strawberries in the middle, between the raspberries and the herbs.

I'd put the rasps and/ or the strawberries in the bed that gets a bit of shade.
Courgettes, squash and cucumbers like a lot of sun.
How big (ish) are the beds?

Tomato feed is great when things are actually fruiting- your be wasting your money putting it on when you water in a raspberry. Just water is perfect.

You could buy autumn-fruiting raspberries. These fruit on current year's growth so you would get a small crop this year. You also dont need to bother trying them in if you dont want to, and whenntheyve finished fruiting you just cut them down. They do tend to give less fruit at a time but over a much MUCH longer period of time.

Thanks. The sunny one is about 1.1m wide by 2.5m long (unplanted space, the rest has herbs in). The shady one is 1.5m wide by 3.3m long (allowing some space around the fruit tree).

Sorry I didn't see your second reply, that's really helpful, thank you! I had seen a mix of plants for sale on Thompson and Morgan, but their Trustpilot reviews are awful, so I've sent some emails to local garden centres to see if they have any in.

As above - raspberries spread like mad and will be happy in the shadier bed. Strawberries are also spreaders, as suggested I'd quarantine those two in a bed together.

Once planted this year if they go into reasonable soil they won't need anything. Tomorite promotes short term fruit and flower production - great for things like dahlias and tomatoes but your new raspberries should be concentrating on getting their roots down and putting on their stem growth so don't bother. Maybe a bit of something slower like Chicken Manure pellets if you feel like giving them something. If the soil is rubbish or claggy put a layer of some kind of bulky soil improver on if you can get hold of it. You are very likely to get a light crop of raspberries this year. 4 canes won't be enough, you definitely need at least 6 for it to be worthwhile.

It's easy to get bamboozled with gardening but if you understand roughly what a plant likes that's good enough for us normal folk. As long as it's roughly right most things will do fairly OK.

I always say this on here, but the soft fruit at Aldi and Lidl is excellent. Also Morrisons garden bit when they open. Usually about £1.79 per cane. But they dont have them yet, might be worth keeping an eye out?

Or do you know anyone with raspberries who might dig you up a few? They do spread so sometimes people dig a few up. I did mine last week!

In the sunniest, most exposed bed I'd probably put the squash and courgettes, with beans and cucumbers in the other one. But others might disagree!

Cucumbers dont really like much wind which is why I thought to not put them in the most exposed bed.

Are you growing tomatoes again?

I bought rasperries from them last year and had raspberries the same year. Not loads but some. I've just cut my autumn ones back. I've got strawberries in a raised bed, think it makes it a bit easier.
I make my own feed from comfrey - you just stick the leaves in water and leave them to rot down. I also use the leaves as mulch and the bees love the flowers.
I have clay soil and my best growers have been peas and French and runner beans. You need a lot of pea plants but the young shoots and fresh peas eaten raw are just divine.

@Purplewithred Thanks - one of the local garden centres will have some in by the end of the week so I will order six and see how I get on. Before I saw your post I ordered some Westland Growmore. Is soil improver the same as topsoil?

@TheSpottedZebra Thank you! Yes the top of our garden can be very windy - I lost most of the cucumbers, tomatoes and all my beans last year (it's a steep slope down, so the wind whistles up and everything was in bags or pots) after one storm.

I've always grown them at the top as that gets full sun nearly all day, but I keep losing them, so I will try the side bed (which also gets full sun but is more sheltered) + some kind of PVC cover. I usually grow tomatoes and cucumbers in grow bags, so it'll be the first time growing cucumbers directly in the soil. The only problem with that bed is it is a PITA to weed / keep clear as it has a small tree near the top, fence at the back and shed down the bottom, so access isn't great (it's also very wide).

DH hates the patio being covered in bags and pots, so I'm going to also try moving the tomatoes. I'll do a grow bag by the back door, then some further down the garden on the side of the fence. I'll get those as plug plants from my Mum, who grows everything from seed.

@Tal45 Thanks for the tip on comfrey, I'll look into that.

The whole compost/soil improver/fertiliser thing is a bit complicated because the language is all muddled.

Growmore is a fertiliser - so it’s concentrated food, effectively.

A soil improver is something bulky with lots of organic matter but not so much in the way of nutrients. Well rotted manure, spent mushroom compost, garden compost, green waste from your council, those kinds of things. Great for soil health and structure. Can be dug in or just laid over the ground for nature to dig in for you (in which case it’s “Mulch” or mulching the beds).

Topsoil is whole soil taken from somewhere else to top up your soil.

“Compost” can be the stuff you make in your garden in a compost heap (ie rotted down peelings, grass cuttings, shredded paper, whatever). “Compost” that is branded and comes in bags (New Horizon etc) and is called Multipurpose Compost/seed compost etc will be a mix of things + added fertiliser = good enough to use in plant pots and wont need extra feed for several weeks/months.

It is really confusing for beginners. You have my sympathy.

As above - raspberries spread like mad and will be happy in the shadier bed. One of the few things I remember from school geography lessons is that Blairgowrie (Central Scotland) is the raspberry growing centre of the UK. Raspberry is actually a UK native wildflower. Cucumbers, squashes and the rest are from warmer climates.

Strawberries throw out a lot of runners, but you either remove them, or if your plants are more than about 3 years old and beginning to decline, pot them up to grow on for next year.

Fertilisers - a grossly over-simplified approach - they have marked on them their percentage of Nitrogen (N) Phosphorous (P) and Potassium (K). A general balanced fertiliser will be 7,7,7 - this is what you want for things like houseplants, where you're after healthy leaf growth. If you are after flowers or fruit you need a proportionally higher level of K, something like Tomorite, which is 4,3,8, or rose fertiliser. So with most veg or fruit, you're OK with Tomorite. Presumably not so great for leaf veg.

In practice, I don't fertilise things that are in the garden, relying on the garden's natural fertility, which I maintain by keeping a compost heap which I use for mulch. Purplewithred has it right.

I have clay soil and my best growers have been peas and French and runner beans. You need a lot of pea plants but the young shoots and fresh peas eaten raw are just divine. I grow sugar snap peas - you eat the pods as well, but pick them more mature than mangetout, so you get proper peas inside. Not that I would ever suggest nibbling the peas from inside and serving the family just the pods, no of course not.

Is soil improver the same as topsoil? Topsoil is just ordinary garden soil taken from the top foot or so. Soil improver is something designed to improve the structure of soil, so will include humus to improve the water holding capacity of the soil. It differs from bought compost in that it doesn't have added fertiliser - you're using it to improve the structure of the soil you have rather than to feed the plants. Even if your garden compost heap compost isn't high in nutrients it is still an effective soil improver.

When you buy compost, try to buy peat-free. Peat bogs are one of our most threatened habitats, they are also extremely good as carbon sinks. So I don't think there's any excuse for those of us not trying to make a living from horticulture to use peat containing composts if we can possibly avoid it. The RHS has already gone peat free.

Gosh, tht was long! Sorry

@Purplewithred @MereDintofPandiculation

Thank you both very much. Especially about the peat-free aspect, I hadn't thought of that. I don't have space for a compost bin (and DH would do his nut about the risk of rats / smell), so I've found some peat-free compost at the local garden centre. I'm a bit wary of manure; I bought some (in a branded bag, not randomly off a farmer) a couple of years ago for my roses and it nearly killed them. I think that was user error, but it has made me very cautious.