Trees

[PandancerandRabbitoplh]

Moved in to thatched cottage a year ago with three trees in back garden, all fairly close to house. Apple tree which is beautiful but slightly sloping and had ivy running up it. 2 holly trees, 1 male on fence with neighbours and 1 female so has berries next to thatched roof. Apple tree maybe 6 metres, smaller holly tree maybe 6 metres, larger one 8 metres. Loads of birds in garden, not an expert but they are green and sing so maybe greenfinch and pigeons and other birds.

Conservation area so need permission to prune but no TPOs. We are having roof rethatched and large holly tree is starting to almost grow into thatch so got 2 companies in both council approved and qualified to quote on pruning them a bit. First comes in and suggest 2 metres off large holly so doesn't hit roof and reshape, one metre and reshape off smaller holly and 3-3.5 metres off apple and says rebalance and shape. Seems a lot off apple and not sure what rebalancing means but on a slope. All trees not been pruned for years.

Second company comes in and suggest large holly just cut on one side where hits roof, prune apple tree in June but take out smaller holly completely. He says its because its taking light from house and thatch and thatch will get damaged. It's true its a much bigger tree potentially than the space but think birds may use it, obviously they prefer the other holly tree which has berries. He suggested planting a smaller tree. Online it says trees can grow to 10-12 metres, there isn't the space for that, its right up against neighbours fence with neighbours extension behind. A smaller tree would look nice but seems wrong to cut existing one down. But could we keep holly tree at say 5-6 metres by trimming it. Am asking neighbours as does look like it blocks out all their light from one room and it has to be cut on one side as too big for our garden so half in neighbours. Its roughly 3.5 metres from house to trunk.

I prefer firm 1s plan though not sure about cutting so much off apple. DH wants firm 2 and a new fruit tree. Anyone any advice - thanks. Basically want to keep birds, tidy up trees and ensure not damaging thatch and ensure apple tree is healthy. Firm 2 thought had fallen in 87 storm.

This is a difficult one , I'd go for firm 1 too. Do they seem understanding about the birds etc. ? Maybe get another estimate as well? Are your neighbours sympathetic?
Count your self lucky that you don't have a large stone wall that has fallen onto your next door's garden just missing one of them!!!

Thanks very much.

Sorry to hear about your wall - we have another house and a drunk person lent on our wall there for support and it collapsed taking drunk man with it.

Neighbour said they don't mind either way which makes matters easier. Husband spoke to both companies rather than me and don't think he mentioned birds but we always have lots around due to thatched roof. I think both are highly regarded firms and approved by various bodies including council so think they will be careful. I may ask thatcher if he thinks smaller tree will damage roof. Bigger holly is closer so I don't get why he says other one damaging it. Its about 2 metres away but higher than roof. Other one is almost touching and higher again but big one birds love as that one has berries and is a bird magnet - stuff yourself silly with berries then collapse onto thatched roof and have a peck and a sing. Roof is bird proofed so they never get anything. One very overweight pidgeon will be getting a bit of exercise once its pruned.

Just heard back from firm 1 who said they would be cutting so much off apple tree as not been pruned for donkeys years but could take less off. They said it should be fine with that amount taken off. Trying to spot if are birds in smaller holly but feeling I want to keep it and it feels like the twin of other one.

Apple trees are so lovely I wish I had one here [fr.} they do last for hundreds of years, I suppose if the firms know how to prune etc. (only in the winter and take off the central crossing branches). IMO and E The main problem with the birds is the weather, it's all over the place, so maybe they could be nestbuilding now I don't know about your area of course.

Yes love the apple tree. Husband has backed down and agreed we can have firm 1 and keep the holly, helped by both the kids wanting to keep it and DS saying killing a tree is the same as killing a person as they are in your way. He loves trees, I was the same as a child and still love them. I've done the application form for conservation area and so if we don't hear can start work from 6 weeks time to 2 years time. I've asked the tree surgeon what the best time is and told him we have birds, not sure if any nest in our trees but we are popular with birds due to thatch and holly with berries. Nothing in apple tree as its bare, male holly looks bird free but think I spotted a bird in bigger holly with berries. Can hear birds but seem to be going back to bigger trees behind us today at least. We don't need it that urgently, its just many things requiring approval here take forever so starting early.

"Rebalancing" means returning the tree to a symmetrical shape.

Unless it's a tiny amount, I wouldn't go for anything that just cut the tree on one side - it wouldn't look good. If you remove either of the hollies you won't get berries - the female tree needs to be pollinated by the male tree. What is pollinating the apple tree? -that's another which needs a pollinator.

You could plan long term and plant replacements elsewhere in the garden, then remove trees once the replacements are large enough (in which case beware - holly variety names are confusing - you can't assume that "queen" equals female and "king" equals male).

Holly is widely used for hedges and topiary, so you should have no problem keeping it to size with regular pruning, but you'll have the hassle of annual Conservation Area applications.

Law is that it's an offence to disturb a nest which is being built or is occupied, either deliberately or recklessly (ie you have to do a very good check for no nests), so guidance is that you avoid the nesting season which I think is taken as end Mar to end Aug. Shouldn't be a problem with the apple since it's less dense and easier to inspect. Apples are usually pruned in winter, which encourages growth, but summer pruning doesn't encourage growth.

Yes they'll be eating the berries now, I don't have holly (i don't think my soil is clayey enough) BUT they love the cotoneaster berries here at this time of the year. Iam feeding them too.

Good luck

Cutting back trees is like getting a haircut - very temporary. Any tree you cut back, even by metres, will just put all its effort into growing back to the same size it was before then carry on getting bigger. A big holly is a very very big thing. Cutting back will buy you a year or two of grace so you need to think of this as being something you have to do every couple of years.

Apples should be cut back in late winter/early spring, not in June, and it's really easy to botch an apple. Does it really need to be cut back at all?

I love trees and I love birds but I'd be seriously thinking about the closer holly's long term future if it's shading the house.

OP with a name change here.

Thanks so much for the information especially the female holly needing a male to make berries.

Not sure what is pollinating apple tree - she is the only one we have though we are in the middle of a village and lots of trees around. She made some apples last year though most fell before ripe. She has lots of blossom. She has ivy round the bottom when we moved in here and looks a bit fragile but the both tree surgeons said she was strong enough to withstand pruning. I don't know much about these things so would just go by what people who know about trees think but was expecting similar opinion from both and every tree got different ideas.

This is a terrible photo I took with laptop, larger holly is the one showing part only above roof, apple tree in middle, smaller holly harder to make out but its on right behind the squared glass. As I look out now it gives shade currently to about 5 square metres of thatch but pruning it should reduce that to a minimal amount but presumably would need to be done every couple of years to keep it that size. The larger holly is closer and DH thinks it may shade a similar amount, similar area of roof.

On councils website it says to apply to take a tree out they need proof its damaging house - I could ask thatcher's opinion, to me the roof doesn't look any worse in that area than the rest but can see what gardener was saying about if thatch doesn't dry quick enough it gets damaged so will check with thatcher. It also strong implies if you take one out they will only approve it if you plant another which is fair enough and would want to do but we may not have space to plant others now and plant more later, not a huge garden. It does give you permission for 2 years if you apply - at the moment I've applied for firm 1s ideas but free to apply and can revise. Thanks very much. I'm not sure when firm 1 would do work but have asked them mentioning birds and it's not urgent.

The Conservation Area legislation on trees was badly thought out. As originally conceived, Conservation Areas are to conserve the built environment, and the stated reason for the tree legislation was to give the Council time to apply a TPO. The legislation wasn't designed to conserve trees, only the buildings and their context - so if the tree was important to the setting, the Council could slap a TPO on it. But there's no provision in the legislation for the Council to say "no, we're not worried about that tree. Do what you need to, you don't need to keep asking us". Waste of their time and ours to have to apply every time you want to prune.

The "proof that's it's damaging house" is a sensible rule, if that's the reason you want to take out the tree. But they're taking a very strong line if that's the only reason they'll accept. I've had permission to remove trees on the grounds that they're shading other trees, or that they've just outgrown their space. Their standard approval letter encourages me to plant a replacement, but that's obviously a nonsense if the reason for removal is there's too many trees, and it is just an encouragement, not a requirement.