Allotment/Veg Patch - Thread 7 - The Harvesters Arms

[bookbook]

Well, it's been an interesting summer, to say the least.
We are now heading into the season of mists and mellow fruitfulness :)
Everyone welcome to join in and ask for advice , share their woes and just enjoy growing!
previous thread here

Hah, I know that feeling re rubbish soil! When we bought our current house start of 2015, the back garden was basically a giant football pitch so we got a turf cutter to lift most of it away. Underneath the first 2/3 inches, it looks like an archaeological dig site.

Where we stuck the raspberry canes that didn't grow, we dug in a good 4/5 inches of compost (mix of different kinds), but maybe we're treating them too kindly, if igardener is anything to go by!

My current plan is to buy some more established (and correspondigly more expensive ) canes rather than the 1 year canes, hopefully a more established plant will suffer less shock.

I am always totally horrified by the state in which gardens are left in new builds. It really isn't OK just to dump loads of hardcore and ten cover it with a bit of soil and just enough plants to survive until the house is sold. The number of people who come on here complaining about lawns that won't grow (or are quagmires) is amazing. It's just so lazy and requires people to do the kind of huge work you've done clara to sort it out.

The only other thing I can think is that raspberries like heavy, moist soil so if yours is really free-draining anyway, and that is exacerbated because there is rubble underneath, that could be an issue???

I bought canes from Kings Seeds last autumn - they were reasonably priced and looked in fine fettle, though I won't be able to tell properly until the growing season. Before that, I got an all-season collection from Thompson and Morgan. Those worked well also, though I always find that stuff grown in sandy soil like they have gets shocked a bit when it goes into my heavy clay. I wonder if this is partly genetic, and partly mycorrhizal? I read in a book recently that it's a good idea to mix a bit of your own soil into a potting mix when sowing seeds to provide the same mycorrhizae as the plant will experience later in its life... No idea how well founded that advice is on evidence, though I've started following it because it seems to make sense.

Oh that's interesting re the soil mixing. I must admit we try to use as little of our actual soil as possible! We are raised bed folks and fanatical composters (if my husband sees me sneak something compostable into the normal bin, its WW3 in our house).

I bought the canes from a heritage fruit tree supplier (the trees we bought are doing fine with the exception of a sad looking plum). But I had good success with thompson and morgan rhubarb and strawberry plants so I'll try them for the raspberries too, thanks for the info.

reg newbuilds and shit soil, there was an interesting monty don episode a couple of weeks ago.

peoole should sue builders for compensation imo

My house was built about 150 years ago, the amount of bricks etc I dug out of the tiny garden when I moved in about 20 years ago made me think my garden was the dumping ground for the builders when they built the row. Do you think I could claim compensation?

Has anyone grown sea kale? I am considering it but wonder if it all might be a bit of foodie hype.

zebra I missed your question but put deer are in Wiltshire- our garden slopes down to a shallow river and 3 deer live the other side! Plus a fox which has less impact on the garden although I avoid treading in its kind presents on my neatly mown paths

elephant sea lake sounds wonderful - I am such a beginner but love the idea of learning what each plant needs so quite happy trying exotic things!

Kale l meant- sorry my typos annoying

As it so happens, the area where the raspberries were 'flung' had previously been my general dump area for things too woody for the compost heap. So plenty of rotted down woody stuff and accompanying white mycelium in the soil. But the soil is otherwise light and sandy, and well drained.

(Hope that helps)

I'm doing some sea kale from seed at the moment - it thrives in my greenhouse then struggles when I plant it out due to constant rain and heavy soil. I'm finding it needs extraordinary amounts of grit to be happy. I think the clue is in the name!

Welcome to everyone new!

I had to tackle a load of rubble in my plot when I first took it on. Basically what had been a good site was ruined by essential repairs to the brick wall at the back of the plots. They had mini diggers and all sorts all over it. When I took on the plot a couple of years later the soil at the part nearest the wall was full of rubble - bricks, several bricks still cemented together, lots of smaller rubble and some of the underlying yellow clay sitting on the surface. It took forever to dig over.

I grew potatoes over some of it which definitely helped to break it up, added manure, compost and have grown green manure as well. It's slowly getting a bit better.

On the plus side I don't have to contend with deer or voles. Although a mouse got all my pea seeds last year. So no direct sowing of those this year.

How annoying and I wonder whether one can stop mice- I think raising a bed onto stilts might be technically challenging!! A plastic heron?! (I once saw one eat ducklings at a Wetlands centre. But don't know how clever mice are).

Thanks Shove for the grit tip, my plot is less than a mile from the coast so that may benefit it. I am trying to decide between seed or thongs, (I can't help but snigger every time I see that).

Thinking about where sea kale grows naturally I would assume that it would need a lovely free draining sandy soil/shingle. So definitely wouldn't work where I live with a lovely none free draining clay soil

I'm not sure that raising beds on stilts would stop determined mice - they can climb. Probably the most effective way would be to take the cat over there but she's not really much of a mouser

Our house is over 40 years old and built on the site of an old golf course. When we were digging over we found quite a few vintage golf balls!

Ah mice....cute, but most annoying when they eat your entire strawberry crop.

Anyone there? I've just made my first proper visit of the year (that is to work rather than just pick leeks) to my plot. It was forecast to rain all day but it has turned out glorious, no coat required. So I cut back my autumn raspberries and dug out a strip of flint and couch that is always too hard in summer, really pleased to have finally conquered it after 3 or 4 years of failure.

Hope everyone is well and getting ready for another growing season

Although a mouse got all my pea seeds last year. So no direct sowing of those this year.

You might find that they haven't actually eaten them, but stashed them somewhere. In September, I had a job lot of woodchip dropped at my plot and by that time, all the peas had been eaten and harvested for seed; some of them must have been taken and hidden because in October, the 31st to be precise, these came up in the woodchip. They are Golden Sweet Mangetout seedlings...and they must have been moved inbetween the peas being stolen, and putting the woodchip down. Unfortunately the heat of the woodchip germinated them.

I don't mind giving wildlife some of my harvests, if it keeps them coming back and they do eat slugs and snails so all in all it helps keep my garden organic. If you want to sow in situ, put the seeds into water for 24 hours to get them started and then sow them.

Right, I've read back through the last few weeks worth of posts to catch up with you all. Lovely to see new people and returners as well as regulars.

I have really missed the allotment this winter, I think it does my mental health such a lot of good when I spend time there regularly. It felt really good working up there again yesterday.

I am vowing not to get tempted by tomatoes again this year after about 5 years of consecutive blight both at home and allotment. Also planning to get rid of a useless not-very-raised bed at the plot and incorporate the area into a larger bed.

Hi its my first year attempting a small veg patch. We have filled a pond and i am planning on building a raised bed with a cloche frame over it to stop cats messing. Could I just check before I start the 'build' the area doesn't get sun all day, in the summer its just until mid day. Will this be ok or will i have to rethink my plans.thanks in advance

Hi Headred, that is going to limit you as to what you can grow. Some plants will do well in that though.
What were you hoping to grow?

WhoKnows I've been back at the plot today as well, and I agree with you about MH - it is so beneficial to me. Boo re tomato blight maybe we should try crimson crush. Has anyone else tried that? And if so, how was it for blight resistance and taste?

Lovely day- worked really hard yesterday so I could take all of today properly off. Garden helper friend came over and DH pressure washed the greenhouse with new soap attachment- much excitement- while I planted lots of peas. Doing them in pots this year to start them off as lost 2 sowings last time I tried them. Thinking about starting some tomatoes off - will be germinating on kitchen roll on the windowsill again as that's worked well in the past. Suspect I'm just a bit ahead of myself as it was so warm today. Blossom everywhere - quince covered, almonds are just opening flowers and spotted some buds on my plum tree which might mean actual plums for the first time. Happy day.

Headred how many hours of sun and would you get more sun if you grew things up wires- is there more sun at height?

So my plot neighbour on one side as left, and I am quite sad about that as they were really nice.
But the plot still seems empty -(in fact there seem to be loads of untouched plots at the mo, that haven't been tended for over a year). I don't know why they left, but I shall miss them.

But I am slightly wondering about enquiring about their plot... It's bigger than mine, and sunnier, and has raised beds. Had it been this time last year, I'd have taken it on, but time is more of an issue now. And I don't want to drop mine and take on theirs, so it'd be an addition. Hmmmm. There are loads of grass paths, so just staying on top of the mowing would be a faff.

Blimey Cath, how ahead you are! My quince are still firmly asleep.
Why did your peas not work - were they nibbled? I had success last year with using chilli against mice and voles, with bean and pea seeds. And growing them under chicken wire against the pigeons, who will eat anything, and are this week shredding my chard. Lots of hot chilli powder or chilli flakes sprinkled on, refreshed after rain - seemed to help, anyway!

I weeded most of my plot yesterday - just got the sides to get on top of now. I'm hoping to get my spent hops and manure piled on over the next few weeks, and then I'll be about ready! In more negative news, my shed which was of archaeological age when I moved it from my back garden to the plot, is giving up the ghost so I think I'm going to have to get a nw one soon.

I'm so jealous cath -those plants you have out are still dormant for me too!

Zebra - On the subject of your vacant plot next door, could you do a trial, for a year, just for the sake of comparison? I reckon you might find it considerably less work on a sunnier area, it really does make a huge difference, especially on heavy clay. You could weed sheet any ground you're not using and then make a decision in the autumn?

whoknows - I know what you mean about it helping to be outdoors. This time of year, about nowish, the light changes. It's not just that sunrise and sunset change, but the sunlight somehow gets brighter and bluer. And it does me a world of good!

Well Zebra I have taken on the over grown half plot next door to mine. So I say go for it. If you can have it for a trial period all to the better. As Shove says more sun will make a difference to how things grow.

No time for gardening last weekend as it was either raining or I was doing other things. DH and I have both have a horrid cold which we were just getting over the last of. Hoping to get over there next weekend. It is supposed to be turning colder again.

Well Chuck if the mice have just stashed the peas I'd be delighted if they came up elsewhere. I did find a couple of half eaten peas scattered around last summer. I am trying this heritage variety this year www.dobies.co.uk/Garden/Vegetables/Rob+Smith+Heritage+Veg+Seeds/Pea+Seeds+-+Blauwschokker_430214.htm They have pretty purple flowers and pods. As well as Kelvedon wonder which have done well for me in previous years.