"In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt." This month's discussion in the potting shed.

[MyNightWithMaud]

Grateful thanks to the magnificent Margaret Atwood (via A Mighty Girl) for the quote.

I have just come indoors after a delightful couple of hours' pottering in the garden. It's far warmer than yesterday and everything feels optimistic and vernal again, after yesterday's Arctic blast.

High point: Realising that most of last year's cuttings have taken. Given that I am useless with seeds this, I think, is my propagating future.

Low point: Realising that my newest fairy lights have already failed.

Exactly FP, and if you had given up work you might not be the person you are now.

Thank you lovely people. I was having a middle of the night anxiety glitch. It is true the DC are both thoughtful and independent. I loved the way DS turned up after 2 days at the last 'house party' saying "Hello mum, can I help you finish clearing out the garage?" lol. He must have been feeling guilty about something. I would love to know what! Brilliant though, because the garage got cleared!!!!!!!!!

I agree with Sugar, your dc always sound like such lovely people! I hope mine grow up like yours. You should not worry. Except don't we always feel this way about our parenting? Someone on here said that guilt is the dominating feature of motherhood. I have days like that. I worry that by not working I am sending a negative message to my children.

Also, your job is so worth doing, more so that many many other jobs. It is a vocation in the truest sense of the word.

That pic looks like turmeric Halsall, but I'm doubtful because I grew some indoors and I think it may be too cold outside for it in England.

I may have mislead some of you by mentioning LOV because it should be out in May not April, sorry! that's when mine comes up and when they celebrate it here anyway.

Well done nightshade

I agree with all that's been said about the Funny offspring (funnydaughter was delightful when I met her briefly at HC), guilt and the dilemmas of parenting. I think dd simultaneously gains something from seeing me working outside the home but also likes me bring at home for her. I like my job (mostly) but it isn't a vocation like funnyperson's.

And another agreeing with all that's been said about your dcs and guilt, funnyperson. Like Humph, I worry a bit about my dcs only seeing me work once a week (if that) and wonder about this as an example. I was scathing to my mother about her being a sahm mum (actually she had little choice), and yet after she died, when my own dc came along, being at home with them felt like the natural thing to me - I wanted them to have what I had had.

And yet, and yet, I have friends persevering with the high powered career I once had, juggling kids and foreign postings and guilt, and I worry that that's what I should have done, and that I've failed somehow.

I can relate to so much of that, Rhubarb. I'm of an age where my mother was a SAHM and so were the mothers of all but a very few of my friends - mums with jobs were a rarity and mums with anything that could be called a career even rarer. I shifted gear into a mummy-track career. I can see my former cohort in my old career reaching very senior positions and there is that sense of "it shoulda been me", but those former colleagues either don't have children or have employed nannies and been less hands-on than I wanted to be. And yet, and yet.

Should have said, Rhubarb, that I am quite sure you haven't failed. Combining your former career with small children sounds hellishly difficult to me. And your new career may well pick up and occupy you for more than a day a week as the DC get older.

DD turned round to me a couple of years ago and said something along the lines of 'no offence but when I'm older I don't want to have a boring life like you, I want a job I enjoy'.

She was about 14 and in the future will be mortified she said it. I had to grit my teeth as one of the reasons I didn't continue with my fledgling research career was trying to juggle work with all her OT, Physio, SALT etc appointments. And I had huge guilt when I mopped her up after she threw up and took her into nursery still as there would be no one to cover me at work, it was the final straw as we had no family support.

The reality is I have been working but she just hadn't really noticed it as it happened whilst she was at school. New business is a bit more prominent as the business number rings in the kitchen and I sit there sorting various bits and so she realises more and seems to respect me a bit more on that front. But think that is partly as she is 16 now so her brain is starting to come out of that self centred thing it does.

As a result I've come to the conclusion that whatever you do you'll feel guilty as it is an integral part of Motherhood as said above.

I'm watching GW, very soothing.

Thanks Maud. Yes indeed my work could easily expand - I'm actually turning offers down all the time at the moment. There is no shortage of work. I just need to get Ds to school then I can get stuck in a bit more. Our local museum is looking for a gardener at the moment - they want to grow natural dyes. It sounds so interesting, I'm sorely tempted but need to sit on my hands because I just couldn't fit anything else in at the moment.

That must have been hard to hear, Sugarplum. Children just have no idea. I mentioned to dd the other day that I was going to work and she looked at me like I was insane - "you, work?!"

That sounds really encouraging Rhubarb and it sounds though you'll be able to line up some really interesting projects in time as the DD'S get older.

Funny age teens, it is nature's way of ensuring separation from your parents isn't it ?! It is lovely to read about people like Ppeatfruit and FP who are further down the parenting path and lovely to read about those of you with little ones and the new potting shed babies too. All of us with different challenges but gardening through them.

I really admire the lady on GW who has created that garden near the beach, amazing what she has done given her circumstances and the environment.

rhubarb i dabble in natural dyeing though haven't got as far as growing my own (not enough space) other than marigolds

I am absolutely so lucky to have the opportunity and the ability to do the job I do and be of use to wider society. And use my brain and insatiable curiosity. My work colleagues are my wider family and in that I am very lucky too. It is also true that without working ones way up through the long hours of lower grades, seniority has little substance.
That said, there really doesn't seem to me to be any substitute for little children other than their mother. As to the DC's perception that looking after them is not work. hah! May the innocence long continue. Rhubarb and Humphrey you do a brilliant job of your young brood and have absolutely made the right decisions in my view. There will be time to take up longer hours when the littlest are at school as long as one keeps ones hand in in the interim. maud thanks for the comment about DD she had a great time!
It isn't always true that those women at the highest level are childless old maids. The president of the Royal College of Physicians at one point was a lady with a severely autistic son. I have met some truly inspirational jugglers in my time. But most ordinary mortals have a finite capacity and tricky choices have to be made or else one has to be very very very organised. (rofl) (There was a highly elevated level of organisation in our household when the DC were growing up). Creativity tends to go out the window.

Which is one reason why I love gardening, DS loves art and DD loves drama and we all love music!

Yes, the woman with the seaside garden was great - so determined to overcome the challenges of her poor health. Good for her.

My parents are old and increasingly frail. We were having a family conversation the other day at which I joked to DD that (as I am an old mother) she may one day have to push me around in my bath chair. She looked at me, appalled, and announced "I am not going to give up my career!" I may have overdone it on the feminist rhetoric.

Oh, I was not at all suggesting that all women in senior positions are childless old maids. Far from it. But the women in my organisation who were the same age as me and on the same level of the greasy pole, and who have since gone on to very senior positions, were either childless or employing nannies (as, frankly, the only way to manage the long working hours). As you say, funnyperson, tricky choices.

it's kind of not my place to comment on this (not having children) but i do think it is bonkers how many areas of work seem to require people to basically pretend they don't have children, or at least pretend that having children (or any other responsibilities outside paid work) has absolutely zero impact on an employee's life

Sadly, you are right, Chopper.

What a fascinating discussion about parenting, so nice not to have the MN strident feminists on here who don't seem able to see things in grey!

IMO we all deal with dcs in our own way. And whatever we do ,as long as we're not neglecting our dcs, is fine. I took quite a bit of time off work be ause I worked in childcare and,frankly, found the dcs who had been bought up inconsistently ,by aupairs, maids who were constantly changing etc. seemed in sore need of attention. I also felt if they 'went wrong' later on I wouldn't have to blame myself for leaving them. Even though it may well not have been anyones's fault ," a mother's place is in the wrong"

They are all okay and have chosen their own paths (both dh and I were 'advised' by our parents to work in fields that we were not keen on) we went our own way too, but after lots of arguments. They still ask our advice because we didn't give it unless we were asked !!

Well, I would always class myself as a feminist, but what I have been pondering recently is that (as it seems to me) buying-in childcare is in many ways easier when children are little. Now DD is older, there isn't much childcare that's suitable or available and, besides, the sorts of things she needs me or DH for (ranging from cracking the whip over homework to navigating the troubled path of teendom) are less easy to subcontract.

As others have said, none of this is straightforward and I doubt there are any right or wrong answers. It's all shades of grey, as far as I can see.

i would probably be classed as a MN feminist of the strident variety !

with all these things, i think most people just do our best with the options available at the time. and if we feel none of those options are great, and we have the time and wherewithal, work to improve them for ourselves and others. the time and wherewithal being easier said than done of course

it's interesting that you say that about teens maud - my dp's mum (who was a SAHM from when her eldest was born and hasn't done paid work since then) felt that her children needed her around more when they were teens than when they were late primary age. but i'm sure that varies from family to family and child to child

A Friend of mine gave up work when her children hit their teens. I am finding DD needs a lot of support at the moment and can see why someone would.

Productive afternoon in the garden. Lawn is cut and looks loads better though I now literally have green fingers. Found the lily of the valley coming through so moved a bit of that . Split some more Geranium Rozanne and another I think is Geranium Elke. Cleared put pond and mulched around it with compost plus moved a few more plants around it. Got rid of lots of dandelions.

I'm afraid I haven't been out in the garden all day

ppeat turmeric? Erm, nope, definitely lily of the valley!

Brilliant weather! All the magnolias are out and it is a really good year for them.

Grey is more like real life with depths of colour of course!

My beloved FIL died last night after a week in hospital, so we have been preoccupied. I said my goodbye last week so I stayed at home gardening and weeding today and keeping my own parents company while exP went down by car and DS went down by bike and train and held the fort.

The garden is like heaven in this weather, makes me think how lucky we are to be alive

oh how terribly sad funnyperson, i'm so sorry

I'm really very sorry to hear that FP Glad the garden is of comfort at this difficult time