what's all this about laburnums being poisonous?

[mogwai]

We have a lovely one in our garden. We cut the garden back quite a bit last summer, and since then the laburnum has really grown. It's gorgeous at the moment, sprawling outwards onto the lawn.

However, we have an 11 month old baby and I'm really worried about this tree being poisonous.

My husband reckons it's the seeds that are poisonous and that it will be ok in a month's time when the blossoms have fallen off and died.

(he knows nothing about gardening though!!)

Our lawn is covered in little yellow petals at the moment, my heart is in mty mouth and I can;t really let the baby play there.

What advice would you give me and should we remove it?

I agree that even children of 2yrs can begin to be taught plant safety and the correct way to walk down stairs.
But surely you have to expect the odd graze or bump and experimentation as part of that learning process.
Do you leave medicines and cleaning fluids lying around too?
Mummy saying ‘never do’ this or that is likely to make it more attractive to all children.

Not sure exactly what you are trying to say there goosey. Are you suggesting that all plants that are even marginally poisonous should be cut down because of kids?

I appreciate that you are a childminder so your garden might be a special case but I think the majority of sensible adults can cope without destroying nature for the sake of their children.

PPH - I have said it before and I will say it again....can I move in please?

Thanks.

xx

pph - "I can't see them most of the time"

Hilarious, just how big is your garden???

x

I grew up with a laburnam, foxgloves etc etc, and we just understood not to eat anything we picked, ever. (except for sucking the nectar out of dead nettles flowers, and blackberries....) However, I do feel a higher level of anxiety about those things than any adult did when I was a child. Now we expect to alter the environment for the benefit of our children, and I'm honestly not sure that that stands them in good stead for later on. Canadians learn to live with wild bears, Australians with poisonous spiders, do we really have to start hacking down healthy trees? I wouldn't put an 8 month old to sit on the grass directly below a pod-dropping tree - but sweeping and keeping an eye out will be precaution enough, won't it? In general, i thought children of about 2 were instinctively averse to eating unfamiliar plant foods anyway - which is partly why they typically become picky about greens at this age? The rpoblem with householf fluids in bottles is their similiarity to soft drinks.

I believe that all sensible parents should protect their children from trees/plants growing in their own gardens that are known to be HIGHLY toxic if ingested.
Yews, foxgloves, certain mushrooms and laburnums are prime examples.
Letting a two year old loose without supervision amongst plants like that is irresponsible.
I wouldn’t think twice about destroying nature – in my own garden - if it posed a threat to my children’s lives.
I would plant more suitable trees/shrubs in their place.

Laburnum was the only tree/plant we took out of our garden and I did it simply because every bit is poisonous and it sheds stuff everywhere. DSs have been taught (and DD will be) not to eat anything from the garden unless an adult tells them it's OK.

It's all a matter of your own personal level of risk isn't it? I and my 2 older brothers grew up with an unfenced pond and I was the only one who fell in it (pushed by a brother!) so I don't view those as so much of a risk as others do.

I think it is one of those things where we will have to differ, as we all have different parenting styles. And they are each right for us.

I am in the camp of teaching children to be aware of dangers, and trying to protect as much as possible until they are able to do so for themsleves. But I can understand why others want to protect against all eventualities.

So, for example, I am glad that our neigbhour has a laburnum that overhangs our garden, so that I can teach ds about the dangers fo laburnums. (Incidentally, she is a childminder too - but the tree is in her front garden, where the children don't get to play).

I've also got loads of foxgloves self seeded all over our garden, and have been planting a rhodendron and azalea bank for the last 3 years.

But then, I am also the sort of parent who deliverately never had a stair gate on either set of stairs, so that ds would learn how to go up and dwon them safely. We barricaded one set slightly while he learnt - but he quickly got the hang of it.

And, shock, horror , I am now occasionally letting him cross the road on his own (he's 5.5) to go acorss to see his friend in the house opposite. I watch (from a distance) to see that he is doing it "properly" and he takes the responsibility very seriously. It's actually very cute to watch him looking and listening all the way across. :)

I really, really hope you live in an urban area goosey because living in the country would give you permanent palpitations.

dont forget Arum lilies

dd1 ate that once

My ds2 ate deadly nightshade from the garden 2yrs ago, jsut before his 2nd b-day when ds1 was 3.5yo. They were together and although ds1 knows not to eat anything didnt think to stop ds2 who despite being told frequently never to eat anything out of the garden still did. I now have an 18mo dd who sticks everything in her mouth and definitely feel unable to let her out unsupervised because of the numerous poisonous plants and trees we have. Wouldnt get rid of any though, just being extra vigilant for the next few yrs. But am having a yew tree lopped off to create a small hedge in the hope of reducing the berry drop zone as it overhangs the veg patch, and think that a small child's ability to differentiate between edible berry and poisonous one is dubious.

What is it with our generation as parents? Why this need to remove every single possibly harmful thing from our children's lives? You cannot eliminate all risk and you will send yourself mad if you try. Rake the pods up, site the baby away from the tree, don't leave the baby unattended in the garden but please don't cut the tree down.

Has anyone read My cousin Rachel by Daphne DuMaurier? The plot hinges on someone being poisoned by laburnum seeds. In the victorian era they were used to make the drug Laudenham-- a highly addictive opiate.

I'm only adding this for the sake of interest -- not as an argument fot losing the tree. I guess it boils down to how secure you feel with it in your garden.

laudinum is made from opium, I don't think that it can be made from labernum. Labernum seeads are poisonous though.

Honeybunny - what happened when your ds ate deadly nightshade?

olive oil - 3 acres. If I got rid of every poisonous thing in it it would be bare (and english heritage would come down on me like a ton of bricks

I do rip up deadly nightshade though.... that is the only thing that is vaguely comparable to having an unlocked medicine cabinet. (which I don't).

I think I would cut down a laburnum tree actually - can't be bothered to police children at all times and they are particularly poisonous. I have checked for deadly nightshade and we dont appear to have any. but we live in a very rural area and have allsorts in our garden.

HAve just tried googling for poisoning statistics. The only report i could find i couldnt download on my work pc. Other than that, there is a referral to a report done in 1973 that states that poisoning is less common than feared, and has rarely ever caused death.

Since it was an article written in 1973, im not sure how valid it is

Blu-ds2 spent 8hrs in hospital being monitored for signs of poisoning.... v, v, v distressing for me and him and ds1 at the time, as we all had to stay in and basically just watch his every move.

The nightshade had started as an innocuous looking weed in our on-going development of a veg garden before our 2week holiday away, and on return had produced deep purple berries. My ds1 claimed ds2 had eaten these and some red berries (yew). Guy's Hospital poison unit said that a child would have to consume a bucket of nightshade berries to actually cause death and that very few ingested that many cos they taste disgusting. More worrying is the yew. The red bit is ok ish to eat, but the small seed inside will kill you. Again it tastes absolutely disgusting so its v rare to find a fatality from it cos most will spit it out. DD, on the other hand, thinks that dishwasher tablets are quite ok thankyou and has been known to eat whole teaspoons of mustard without batting an eyelid so chances with her finding a yew berry repulsive isnt something I'd ever want to test.

ds2 was absolutely fine, thank god! I dont think hetried the yew berries and only chomped on a couple of nightshades before I investigated them for being too quiet. I found him with a mouthful and made him spit them out.

My db ate laburnum seeds. I think he was given stuff to make him sick at A+E. Enid, get dh to relay that story, I cant really remember details other than a general family panic. He was fine, obviously!!

still watching this with interest - the tree is now shedding all over the lawn. I'm far too time poor to rake it all up - there's so much of it.

Will it flower again later in the year?

Are pods poisonous even if they have been lying dead on the ground for weeks?

This tree may have a reprieve, at least for this summer!

I think we should grow marijuana next to the nightshade, so our kids associate weed with death. Then I gave my ds2 some mescaline and we tripped hard for like 4 hours on the lawn. Try it.

You can teach your own kids not to eat the seeds/berries from the garden - but don't rely on everyone else to do the same thing! 6 kids from dds school were taken to hospital last year after eating laburnum seeds 'because they thought they were peas'. The children were all yr3/4 (so 7 - 9). The worrying thing for me was that dd2 KNOWS not to eat things from the garden until I have said they're ok (we grow herbs/fruit & veg) but said she didn't eat any 'because she doesn't like peas'.
BTW Laburnum trees are grown by people near the school grounds, and school has no legal reason to ask for them to be removed, just has to chop the overhang regularly.